Advice needed from fellow 4200 manual owners

Tifoso27

New Member
Messages
21
Hi All,

I’ve been told that I need a new clutch, and both quotes I have so far are for over 3 grand (supply and fit). Just wanted to make sure that this seems about right or if there are any non-OEM alternatives? I’ve also been quoted over a grand for the gearstick knob (which snapped while trying to engage reverse). Is it possible to use a non-OEM item? I was able to put the gearknob back on (without the reverse selector) and use the car for a week before it went into a specialist (being very careful not to hit reverse instead of 2nd!).

The symptoms of my clutch issue are odd - it’s impossible to engage any gear until the car has been running for around ten mins in the morning. I can then use 3rd for the first part of the journey and then all other gears with no issue soon after. It’s then fine for the rest of the day. A fellow Coupe GT owner on here posted a thread about clutch fluid getting contaminated and solidifying - could it be that?

Cheers!
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
Terry had similar issues on a Le Mans trip and yes, there is a possibility that your issue could just be the fluid. Cheap and easy to try that first, but you might need to pull the clutch pedal upward to allow the fluid to bleed past the piston. This was what prevented many French mechanics from bleeding his clutch.
 

Oishi

Member
Messages
825
A symptom of impending clutch pump failure or a weak pedal return spring that let's the pump bleed down. When cold, try to pump up the clutch pulling up with your toe between strokes. If that works, the pump (master cylinder) could be the problem.
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,746
The manual also looses cable effectiveness as the selector cables stretch. Have them checked too.

£3k for the clutch is ball-park and there are no alternative suppliers. Ensure you get new stock, not new old stock as the part was uprated to avoid tang fails. Also get the spiggot bearing and clutch plate done at the same time as the costs of this work is 70% labour.
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
Gear selection issues is nothing to do with clutch wear and slippage.
Do you need a new clutch for slippage, and you have selection problems too, a different problem?
 

Geo

Member
Messages
616
It was my car that had the solid clutch fluid in the master cylinder and line from the reservoir that feeds it. Try bleeding the clutch, you will soon find if the fluid is flowing. I think a lot of folk forget that the fluid master cylinder feeds both the brakes and the clutch. They change the brake fluid, but forget to bleed the line down to the clutch at the same time.

When I had this issue, gear selection deteriorated to the point that It would not go into gear as the clutch was not operating.
 

safrane

Member
Messages
16,746
Gear selection issues is nothing to do with clutch wear and slippage.
Do you need a new clutch for slippage, and you have selection problems too, a different problem?
Hence my point... snapping the gear stick in a attempt to get a gear may be an indication that there is more than just a worn friction plate here.
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,654
Snapping the gearstick..? C'mon man....it's a steel shaft..!
Maybe he's removed the head...which are failing pretty often I reckon. Mine would come away in my hand before I fixed it....

I ran it without the spring that returns the reverse select sleeve ( just below the head) Changing gear becomes a pain in the preverbial...
Cablesmight stretch but this can be taken up with adjustment. IIRC however, they adjust in increments which can have the effect of fixing one issue whilst presenting with another..The select mechanism below the box has a number of shafts connecting the various actions. For example, the left to right movement at the cabin translates to a vertical motion under the box to the fork selectors....These are set up to +/- 0.5mm...so adjustment could conceivably be a thing?

Seems right...might be clutch. might be adjustment. 3K clutch fitting is an expensive coin flip. Find someone who will do a professional diagnosis ( ie- without their Maserati tax calculating glasses on )
Did you not get the car inspected when you bought it ? Clutch wear can be assessed but it requires a visual inspection on the manual cars.
 
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Tifoso27

New Member
Messages
21
Gear selection issues is nothing to do with clutch wear and slippage.
Do you need a new clutch for slippage, and you have selection problems too, a different problem?
No slippage at all. But no ability to select gears until the car has sat warming for ten minutes in the morning. So you think the clutch itself might be ok?
 

Tifoso27

New Member
Messages
21
It was my car that had the solid clutch fluid in the master cylinder and line from the reservoir that feeds it. Try bleeding the clutch, you will soon find if the fluid is flowing. I think a lot of folk forget that the fluid master cylinder feeds both the brakes and the clutch. They change the brake fluid, but forget to bleed the line down to the clutch at the same time.

When I had this issue, gear selection deteriorated to the point that It would not go into gear as the clutch was not operating.
I’d be really grateful if you could link to your original thread. I’ll send it to my specialist, as I recall that you included pics of what the build-up looked like. Were the symptoms similar to what I’m getting before you did the work? Many thanks
 

Tifoso27

New Member
Messages
21
Snapping the gearstick..? C'mon man....it's a steel shaft..!
Maybe he's removed the head...which are failing pretty often I reckon. Mine would come away in my hand before I fixed it....

I ran it without the spring that returns the reverse select sleeve ( just below the head) Changing gear becomes a pain in the preverbial...
Cablesmight stretch but this can be taken up with adjustment. IIRC however, they adjust in increments which can have the effect of fixing one issue whilst presenting with another..The select mechanism below the box has a number of shafts connecting the various actions. For example, the left to right movement at the cabin translates to a vertical motion under the box to the fork selectors....These are set up to +/- 0.5mm...so adjustment could conceivably be a thing?

Seems right...might be clutch. might be adjustment. 3K clutch fitting is an expensive coin flip. Find someone who will do a professional diagnosis ( ie- without their Maserati tax calculating glasses on )
Did you not get the car inspected when you bought it ? Clutch wear can be assessed but it requires a visual inspection on the manual cars.
Yeah the head came off and the spring and reverse button shot across the car! It happened as I was in a rush and couldn’t wait for it to warm up.

Agreed, driving without the reverse selector was a ballache but I found getting reverse easier without it (surely not a good sign).

I’ll ensure that the specialise does an assessment of clutch wear and a proper bleed of the system before taking the plunge on a new clutch.
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
9,033
No slippage at all. But no ability to select gears until the car has sat warming for ten minutes in the morning. So you think the clutch itself might be ok?

Keyboard diagnosis, I would suspect the problem is with gear selection cables being worn/out of adjustment, to the point a bit of heat/expansion allows the selection of a gear to be then 'within' tolerance, and selection can then be made.
Might be the clutch slave/master cylinders, but I think less likely if okay when warm.
The clutch itself, if no slippage, can't see it being the problem.
Who wants to dive in and change the clutch at great cost, then have the same problem, then more cost to sort out the real problem.
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,654
Without knowing the year of your car...they also went to a sealed bearing on the mech that hangs in the all the elements under the car...This should last better ( though not forever) But f you have an old er car...these bushings can get quite horrible without constant attention, especially if you use it in all weathers..And a stiff mech, which might conceivably free up with gearbox heat, leads to cable stress and so on...
 

Wanderer

Member
Messages
5,791
I might be a thick as a whale omelette but could this car be a CC not a manual? Easy to break the reverse selector off, seen no many CC/DS's with half a lever!

EDIT: reread must be a manual....
 

Vampyrebat

Member
Messages
3,115
A new gearstick knob is about £750+vat from ES so £1000 is about right. Try looking on eBay or ES may have a used one. Try the many other used dealers on here such as SopranoStu.
As others have said, it doesn't sound like typical clutch wear.
Is it the first clutch?
How many miles has the car done?
Classico or face-lift?
 
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Messages
1,117
You could spend a lot of time, effort and money on "it could be this" or then again, "no it could be that"". I am no mechanic, but I think you need to take it to a specialist to track down the fault. Gear cables are either no longer made or very difficult to source. A clutch change is around £3k. A gearknob is around £1k and used parts aint cheap (judging by the cost of used Larini pipe on another thread which went for around 60% of the new price) so quite likely expensive for used gearknob - £600?

Let a specialist diagnose the fault and recommend a solution.. If you are near the NW/Manchester/Cheshire areas, I can recommend Autoshield who look after my GS. Worth a phone call at least......