4200 CC : Problem starting when engine hot

Bails848

New Member
Messages
5
Well done Tony, you’ve done all the hard work now, I just hope you have the same results that I got. I’m almost 4 weeks after new thermostat install, I’ve used the car every weekend and not once has it failed to start when hot. I’m no longer avoiding petrol forecourts and hand car washes!
Best of luck Tony, hope you’ve solved the problem!

Ian
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Sounds like you spent quite a while wrestling with that I recall it was quite a lot easier. Did you remove the front bumper, fanpack and radiator to give yourself more access?

If you have the adjuster knobs then you do not have xenon's. The xenon's were self leveling.

Here are my findings

Headlights https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/fiftys-manual-4200-build.28073/page-3#post-680728 (post above is about changing radiator and thermostat)

Headlights https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/headlight-adjustment-not-xenon.25142/

Radiator/thermostat https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/maserati-4200-water-radiator.26723/
 

tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
Sounds like you spent quite a while wrestling with that I recall it was quite a lot easier. Did you remove the front bumper, fanpack and radiator to give yourself more access?

If you have the adjuster knobs then you do not have xenon's. The xenon's were self leveling.

Here are my findings

Headlights https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/fiftys-manual-4200-build.28073/page-3#post-680728 (post above is about changing radiator and thermostat)

Headlights https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/headlight-adjustment-not-xenon.25142/

Radiator/thermostat https://www.sportsmaserati.com/index.php?threads/maserati-4200-water-radiator.26723/
Thanks Fifty for taking the time to post all that.
No, I had no reason to remove the bumper and radiator so I didn't do so - although no doubt that would have made changing the thermostat easier it would have been even more work.
I do have Xenons, and they definitely do adjust. I should have said "adjustment screws" rather than "knobs" - I've corrected my post, sorry for causing confusion. So I still don't know which way to turn which screw.
Thanks again
Tony
 
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FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
The front bumper comes off very easily... Refitting it is ok but getting the headlights back in is a PITA, if you ever do it remember to keep a lot of slack on the fastenings inside the wheel arch.

There is a bracket back there that is likely turned into dust by now... When you sort your hot start problem and you fancy a fresh can of worms it is worth taking off the bumper and replacing the bracket during an afternoon... I fabricated one myself and got my friend to help with the welding/drilling of the stainless steel. You can also repair the mounting points on the airbox (or the entire thing) they usually get sheered or smashed over time.

 
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tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
The front bumper comes off very easily... Refitting it is ok but getting the headlights back in is a PITA, if you ever do it remember to keep a lot of slack on the fastenings inside the wheel arch.

There is a bracket back there that is likely turned into dust by now... When you sort your hot start problem and you fancy a fresh can of worms it is worth taking off the bumper and replacing the bracket during an afternoon... I fabricated one myself and got my friend to help with the welding/drilling of the stainless steel. You can also repair the mounting points on the airbox (or the entire thing) they usually get sheered or smashed over time.

Yes, and whilst I'm at it and have ten minutes to kill I'll pre-emptively replace my heater matrix as that looks dead easy to do too :D;):)!!! (Fortunately my successful coolant pressure test tends to confirm I don't have any leaks anywhere, heater matrix or otherwise... ...for now!)
 

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Yes, and whilst I'm at it and have ten minutes to kill I'll pre-emptively replace my heater matrix as that looks dead easy to do too :D;):)!!! (Fortunately my successful coolant pressure test tends to confirm I don't have any leaks anywhere, heater matrix or otherwise... ...for now!)

Small victories!

I kindly let Aldous at AV Engineering sort my heater matrix and the mess it caused behind the dash as I didn't have the breadth of tools needed nor the space to store the cars interior inside my house (the wife was pretty against it being in the living room). It was one of AV's first jobs during the first month they were open for businesses... He's not been able to get rid of me since.

You will know when it's leaking, your car will be stupidly damp then the electrics will go crazy with the water ingress
 

tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
Small victories!

I kindly let Aldous at AV Engineering sort my heater matrix and the mess it caused behind the dash as I didn't have the breadth of tools needed nor the space to store the cars interior inside my house (the wife was pretty against it being in the living room). It was one of AV's first jobs during the first month they were open for businesses... He's not been able to get rid of me since.

You will know when it's leaking, your car will be stupidly damp then the electrics will go crazy with the water ingress
Sounds like an excellent solution, and no doubt should it happen to mine I will not attempt to change it myself. I have assembled the leaking heater matix by-pass kit and I have this in the boot all the time - so should it suddenly start leaking I don't need to be stranded miles from home. Hopefully the very presence of this kit will serve as a talisman to stop mine ever leaking !!!
 

tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
LATEST REPORT : "SO FAR SO GOOD"
It's been pretty cold here in the Charente these last few days (a few degrees colder than in England for once) so I've been working in short bursts. My coolant cicuit held pressure even after several days, so that was good. I then used the pressure from my pressure pump to purge the circuit from the two purge bolts. Before going further I got on with adjusting the headlights. I'll post my findings once I've finished this - see https://www.sportsmaserati.com/inde...-xenons-adjusting-headlamps-headlights.34855/

I then put the RH wheel back on and refitted the protection under the engine to make the car was drivable again. With the new thermostat the car settles at about 85°C when on the move, (5°C outside), climbs beyond 90°C when stationary, the fans turning on at around 93°C, and off again at about 90°C, all of which sounds pretty good to me. The 85°C on the move is definitely a few degrees hotter than it used to be. All very encouraging. I've been trying to replicate the fail-to-start-from hot, so far thankfully without success. I've also not yet had another P0128 code. All looking good, but it's early days yet.

Not sure I'm ready to avoid petrol forecourts quite yet, Ian, but it's definitely "so far so good" - thanks again for your encouragement!

I'll report back after a few more outings.
 

tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
LATEST REPORT : STILL "SO FAR SO GOOD"
I've done a few more trips trying to replicate the fail-to-start-from hot, so far still thankfully without success. I've also still not yet had another P0128 code.
I've even filled the tank up, meaning two restarts from hot, and still instant restarts.
So it's definitely still "so far so good", but I'll leave it a lot longer before I put all the engine bay covers back in. No point in tempting fate!
It will hopefully be a good while before I report back again - unless my hot-start problem strikes again.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,119
The engine bay looks nicer without the covers.
Mine came with me from NZ to France by accident and sold here for a €150 a Billy Bonus for me :)
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,549
I'd never heard of Occam or his razor, and having looked it up I'm afraid I still haven't understood !

In short, the simplest answer is most likely to be correct. So in this case given that the problem has not re-curred, it's likely that @tonycharente has fixed it.

The alternative is that the problem is still being intermittent, just hasn't manifested since the fix. Which requires a more complex situation and is therefore less likely to be correct

Although we're looking at proving a negative so it's never going to be easy :)

C
 

tonycharente

Member
Messages
182
In short, the simplest answer is most likely to be correct. So in this case given that the problem has not re-curred, it's likely that @tonycharente has fixed it.

The alternative is that the problem is still being intermittent, just hasn't manifested since the fix. Which requires a more complex situation and is therefore less likely to be correct

Although we're looking at proving a negative so it's never going to be easy :)

C
Thanks - I understand better now. I won't really know whether I've solved the problem for weeks, and even then it might just be that it hasn't happened again YET. I'm really really hoping that Occam and his razor are on my side, though...
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
Something 'bout the thermostat and engine temp being an obvious anomaly...
A null hypothesis...Start by disproving the positive, and you gain traction with the negative !
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,549
Thanks - I understand better now. I won't really know whether I've solved the problem for weeks, and even then it might just be that it hasn't happened again YET. I'm really really hoping that Occam and his razor are on my side, though...

Absolutely the correct attitude, IMHO.

Something 'bout the thermostat and engine temp being an obvious anomaly...
A null hypothesis...Start by disproving the positive, and you gain traction with the negative !

Traction, perhaps, but a negative is un-provable. (as far as I know)

C
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,656
Thanks - I understand better now. I won't really know whether I've solved the problem for weeks, and even then it might just be that it hasn't happened again YET. I'm really really hoping that Occam and his razor are on my side, though...
That’s Damocles’ sword....:p:D
 

Bails848

New Member
Messages
5
LATEST REPORT : "SO FAR SO GOOD"
It's been pretty cold here in the Charente these last few days (a few degrees colder than in England for once) so I've been working in short bursts. My coolant cicuit held pressure even after several days, so that was good. I then used the pressure from my pressure pump to purge the circuit from the two purge bolts. Before going further I got on with adjusting the headlights. I'll post my findings once I've finished this - see https://www.sportsmaserati.com/inde...-xenons-adjusting-headlamps-headlights.34855/

I then put the RH wheel back on and refitted the protection under the engine to make the car was drivable again. With the new thermostat the car settles at about 85°C when on the move, (5°C outside), climbs beyond 90°C when stationary, the fans turning on at around 93°C, and off again at about 90°C, all of which sounds pretty good to me. The 85°C on the move is definitely a few degrees hotter than it used to be. All very encouraging. I've been trying to replicate the fail-to-start-from hot, so far thankfully without success. I've also not yet had another P0128 code. All looking good, but it's early days yet.

Not sure I'm ready to avoid petrol forecourts quite yet, Ian, but it's definitely "so far so good" - thanks again for your encouragement!

I'll report back after a few more outings.

Tony this is great news, I’m so pleased you’ve had success, although it’s early days, so fingers crossed!! I still try to replicate the hot start issue, but I can’t. It hasn’t let me down once since changing the thermostat.