3200 Starter Motor

conaero

Forum Owner
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34,593
With our thanks to Neil Wrightson for his permission to post.

3200 starter motor:

Valeo: D6RA64 (Peugeot/Citroen/Lancia)
Bosch reconditioned unit part number 0986016530-93N
The only difference is the casting that bolts it to the bell housing. This is easily swapped with the old one by undoing 4 small torx or hexagon keys and takes less than 5 minutes.

£50 plus VAT

Over the last few days I noticed the starter turning ever slower and slower. I assumed it was the battery and so when it just went ‘clunk' when I turned the key, I was surprised to see that the lights were bright and the wipers went full blast. ‘Bugger…it's the starter then! Now I know that we live in a world where half wits blame others when they do something silly and they sue people who try to help. So the following is NOT advice for replacing a starter motor on a 3200GT or a suggestion of how to save a fortune…but if I was doing it again, I would like my instructions to read as follows.


Where is the starter?
After 3 of us spent 20 minutes looking for it, I eventually discovered the starter motor using a fibre optic camera! It's sat right at the top of the engine under the inlet manifold and other gubbins. You cannot see it from just looking at the engine in situ.

This picture shows the plenum removed, and you can see the water manifold in the middle of the V of the Block. The Starter is to the rear and underneath.

PICT0016.jpg


Where can I get a new starter from?
Eurospares quoted a 240 pounds plus VAT plus carriage ...gulp. I never even asked a main dealer. Waterloo motor factors quoted about 160 pounds plus VAT (better)…...but a 4 week wait and Andrew Page motor factors said: “a maserati, no chance!â€. However when I quoted the Valeo genuine part number that I got off the original (D6RA64) Andrew pages said it showed on their system as a Peugeot/Citroen/Lancia starter…â€oh yes, we have one in stock…50.02 Pounds plus VAT†(Bosch reconditioned unit part number 0986016530-93N). Please read on however as it needs a very small alteration to make it fit.

What tools do I need?
13mm, 14mm, 17mm open ended spanners, 6mm Hexagon key socket, 9†extension bar and a 3/8 drive ratchet (1/2†drive is too fat), medium sized cross head screwdriver and a pair of old side cutters. A magnet on a stick is a good idea and 13mm and 14mm shallow and thin sockets would help. Some kitchen roll and chocolate hobnobs help too.

How long will it take?
Ages, as it's a lot of faffing about. I took 4 hours in a leisurely way, stopping for the odd cup of coffee every now and again.

Is it difficult?
No, assuming you are an average amateur spanner wielder. No special tools are needed and the whole thing can be done with the car sat on the drive.

How to do it?
Now this bit will sound long and complicated. Yes it is long, no it is not complicated. I would start from the rear of the engine and work my way forward, that way you are less likely to miss something and instructions are easier to follow.

  • Disconnect the car battery, ensuring that the windows are down a little (just in case you want to open the doors!) 5 minutes.
  • If you can use an air line or similar, blow clean the top of the engine especially around the bottom of the inlet manifold, where it bolts to the head. Mine was full of leaves. I had no air line, so used a vacuum cleaner and a clean paintbrush to clean it all up. 10 minutes
  • Start at the back of the engine and undo the following;
  1. The four push-on black pipes (very small diameter) right at the back of the inlet manifold. Try to remember where to put them back. (2 minutes)
  2. Using a 17mm spanner undo the 4 fuel pipe unions (2 per fuel rail) above and to each side of the inlet manifold. (4 minutes)
  3. Unclip the 8 fuel injector electrical connectors. (4 minutes)
  4. Unclip the 2 small fuel vapour breather pipes that come from the front of the fuel rails. Use the old side cutters to undo the clips, you can reuse them. (4 minutes)
  5. Unclip the 2 breather pipes on the black box thingy at the front of the engine (to the right as you look at the engine….it has 3 pipes about ½†diameter going into it, you only need to undo the middle and left pipes). Again use the sidecutters gently and you can then reuse the clips. (5 minutes)
  6. Undo the electrical connector to the left front of the engine (as looking at it) that connects to the throttle body. It unclips. (2 minutes)
  7. Undo the large hoseclip that connects the air intake pipe to the front of the throttle body. Pull the air intake pipe forward. (3 minutes)

If all is well, you shouldn't be able to see anything else connected to the inlet manifold apart from both sets of injectors and fuel rails that you do NOT need to remove. If you see any other rubber hose remove it and curse me for forgetting to tell you.

Now you need to remove the entire inlet manifold/fuel injectors/fuel rails and this is easy, as follows:
  1. Undo the 16 hexagon bolts (6mm) that hold the manifold down to the head. Be very careful to remove the bolt AND the washers (you do NOT want them to fall into the head as you remove the manifold. I used a small magnet on a stick). (10-15 minutes)
  2. Now you need a helper and between you (one on each side) lift the manifold straight up about 6†only.
  3. The person on the passenger side now needs to undo an irritating ½†vacuum pipe that is on the bottom of the manifold. (1-5 minutes plus swearing)
  4. With this undone, the manifold, injectors and fuel rails will easily lift off in one piece. Put it all safely on some cardboard or similar, to avoid damaging it.
  5. Now before anything else, cover up all 8 openings into the head. I just put a wad of gently squashed up kitchen roll in each. You MUST make sure that nothing falls down these holes. (take a few minutes here and be very careful…drop something down there and it will make you cry)

By now, you will at last be able to see the starter motor…under some pipes!
  1. You only need to undo the two rear pipes, leave all the others alone. (5 minutes)
  2. Now using a 14 mm spanner undo the middle bolt holding the starter in place. Once part undone (it's almost one flat at a time and takes forever) undo the 2 other bolts that hold in the starter; these for some silly reason are 13mm, each one has a braided earth to it…remember that later! (10 minutes plus swearing)
  3. Now the starter will move, but is held in by its cables. Unplug the small spade connector and using the 13mm spanner undo the main power lead. This takes a while as there is very little space. Be patient. (another 10 minutes in my case)

Now the starter will come out of the space at the back, where you undid the 2 hoses. (2 minutes jiggling it)
  1. Have a well earned cup of tea and a chocolate hobnob. (30 minutes seems reasonable)

Now look in dismay as the Bosch starter turns up and looks different! (in my case 5 minutes wimpering followed by 5 minutes careful measuring and inspecting). Don't panic though. The only difference is the casting that bolts it to the bell housing. This is easily swapped with the old one by undoing 4 small torx or hexagon keys and takes less than 5 minutes.

Refitting is absolutely the reverse of the above and takes less time. To be absolutely certain that nothing had fallen down the head, I used a magnet on a stick to trawl around each of the 8 ports before replacing the inlet manifold.

I spent ages at each stage making sure that I'd not missed anything. Whilst I was at it I inspected all the hoses and stuff under the manifold and would have replaced anything that looked like it was old and cracked.

Yes it took me 4 hours in total, but I saved an absolute packet. The whole thing cost me less than 60 pounds. The Bosch unit is a reconditioned Valeo unit and is absolutely identical to the OE unit (once I'd changed the casting on the end).
 
Last edited:

Parisien

Moderator
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34,927
Conaero......as the advert says.......PRICELESS!!!

Not only in saving a fortune in the part...sourcing it......advice on slight modification, but also the fact that it can be done by using simple mechanical expertise, saving yet more, plus learning about it and inspiring others to do the same!!

What this board is all about.........go to the top of the class........though you will have to share the podium with Loz....;)....!!!


P
 

conaero

Forum Owner
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34,593
Thanks, very pleased with the way this section is coming along, its turning into our own mini Haynes manual. £50 for a starter motor is simply amazing!

I did not do this article, just posted it, so credit where credit is due.....Neil Wrightson
 

Parisien

Moderator
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Excellent......maybe Conaero think of doing an index post at start of thread.......link to each relevant post/fix?

P
 

bill

Junior Member
Messages
247
Brilliant! while the manifold is off, take the oportunity to change those 4 short pipes as they are a known weak point. Got a lot of sarco pipe left over from whae I did mine if anyone wants it.

cheers
 

lozcb

Member
Messages
12,300
Top Marques Neil:thumb3: exquisitley done , your obviously a lot more pc orienteated than me takes me longer to write it up and post it than to do the actual job , so in future i'll just put all mine in a Word doc box and post it to you to arrange the how to



regards loz, seriously mate Kudos to you fancy doing some more were crying out for 3200 how to 's
 

neilwrightson

New Member
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13
Thanks for adding the pic Matt and adding the quick reference bit at the top.. As a double act we could work for Haynes.

Mind you, I won't be writing any more of course...because it won't be going wrong thank you very much!
 

NickP

Member
Messages
1,623
Don't forget to drain the coolant via the radiator else you will end up with it all over the engine when you undo the pipes which are hiding the starter motor.
 
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rob4wd

New Member
Messages
70
just a short note on this, while the inlet manifold and starter motor are removed it is a good idea to change the knock sensors unless you know them to be newish. these are relatively cheap parts at £50 each and a common source of cel's on the 3200. if you don't do them now and one fails ,say 4 months down the line you are looking at a sizable bill and more inconveniance.don't ask me how i know! conversly if you're into the 'v' doing knock sensors at £50 odd for a starter,on a 60k+ engine it would be equally rude not to replace the starter motor.

regards

rob
 

Roberts Aerospace

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Not that I mind one of my pictures being used to illustrate this article, but it would have been nice to get credited!

If you'd asked, you could have had this one, which shows the position of the starter with the water distribution manifold removed.

Pict0005b.jpg

As well as agreeing with the comment about replacing the knock sensors whilst you're there, I would add that the main reason for failure is that the water distribution manifold is only sealed to the heads with rubber "O" rings, which often leak water into the "V" which then corrodes the starter motor and the knock sensors. I always use a flange sealant in conjuction with the rings to ensure that there are no further water problems.

Mike
 

Parisien

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Hi Mike,

Not sure if the original poster still visits the forum, if not, am only too happy to apologize on behalf of the Sportsmaserati forum for the said photo not being credited to you.

I do hope you continue to post and enjoy the forum; we as a group of enthusiasts are grateful for your posts and sharing your knowledge about our fav cars,


Regards,


P
 

Roberts Aerospace

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I'm only teasing - the picture is one of Conaero's engine that I took when I was plugging the leak in his plenum chamber, so I know who the culprit is...

Mike.
 

Parisien

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34,927
Nevertheless...I shall thrash Matt to within an inch of his life for such an indiscretion..............;)....:)


Its called the Prefect bites back scenario.....:)


P
 

RSM Masser

Member
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2,437
Are there any special torque settings for the parts?
I need to replace bothi (I assume there are 2) knock sensors (garage price £650inc) parts price less than £200, 2 knock sensors, rubber 'O' ring gaskets and those 4 short hoses on the water jacket - I will replace any other coolant pipes I find which look a bit suspect as well.
I cant really see where the knock sensors are on the photos
Can any body tell me the relevant torque settings for the bolts and knock sensors?
 

Roberts Aerospace

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The torque setting isn't in the manual, but is about 2.2DaNm - so, just over hand tight. If you do them up too tightly, they will break and you'll have to do it all over again. Don't rely on the O rings, but use plenty of hermetite red semi-hardening sealant too.

Mike
 

RSM Masser

Member
Messages
2,437
Thanks Mike - thats good advice.
what about the inlet manifold bolts? I knew the knock sensors where fairly delicate and would have probably overtightened them without knowing.
 

davy83

Member
Messages
2,809
I used hermetite blue which also does not set and is better at high temperatures. And I also replaced both knock sensors and the starter and replaced the hoses with silicone ones while i was there. be careful to replace the ground strap which comes up from below and is caught under the starter bolts its easy to miss it. Also take care with the electrical connections there are two identical ones which can be swapped if you put them back in the wrong place, i posted about this some where else. I also replaced the bolts on the intake manifold and hose couplings as these were quite rusty with stainless ones. Not at home or I would post some pics i took of the job. if you want them I have them some where.
 
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Roberts Aerospace

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The most important thing to check is the vacuum feed to the brake servo. I had a customer in recently who had just had his engine rebuilt by another "specialist". They hadn't done up the julilee clip on the vaccum pipe, and it had blown off. As the brakes were down to the metal, without power assistance, he had no brakes at all. I couldn't even hold it against the creep of the torque converter at idle with both feet on the brake pedal. Lethal.

I don't get on with blue and have found red to be better for water related activity. But, other opinions are available!

Mike.
 

MUC3200GT

Junior Member
Messages
127
... take the oportunity to change those 4 short pipes as they are a known weak point.

cheers

thats what I am currently doing but as one of the 16 bolts holding the manifold is fastened quite tight, I had to stop last night. So I am wondering wheter soemone knows the diameter of these 4 short water hoses under the manifold? SO that I can order them in advance .

Also I am wondering whether there is a right torquening for this 16 bolts?.
 

rotorheadcase

Junior Member
Messages
415
32mm internal diameter and 60mm long. courtesy of SteveM who took the time to answer exactly this question on the "other" forum. The workshop manual does not specify a torque setting for the intake manifold bolts.

Regards,

Neil