3200, no fans and running too hot

Rob3200

New Member
Messages
3
Hello,
Yesterday my mothers 3200GT came up with a new way of demanding attention (and money) from its owner: Overheating.
Car started and drove perfectly fine on the highway but after spending a minute or two in light city traffic, engine temperature would rise significantly. When I noticed it, temperature had already reached about 115C. At that point, idle got bumped up to 1100rpm but the temperature warning light had not come on. Fans didn't run. We parked and shut it down immediately. No fans prior or after shutdown.
Driving back home on the highway after letting it cool down, temperatures remained stable at 80-85C. Luckily, its just about a minute from highway to our garage but even that pushed coolant temperature above 100C. Parked, shut off and opened the bonnet to prevent the worst of heatsoaking. Again, fans didnt come on at any time.

Was that enough overheating to warp heads? Does this engine have a tendency to drop valve seats or is it safe to restart without further inspection?

Both radiator fans seem to be completely dead, neither low nor high stages work. On the last drive, a week ago, they were fine.
So far I checked fuses and relays in the engine compartments fusebox, all are fine. There are no signs of corrosion, cables and connectors look like new - as everything on this car.
There is a resistor for the low fan stage down the rear of the the radiator which, so far, hasn't been tested. However, as far as I get it, failure of this resisitor should only take out the low stage but not both.
What else is there to look for? Any invalid sensor input (AC?) which could prevent the ECU from turning on fans?

The car will be brought to the dealership for diagnosis and repair but ideally it can be fixed in our garage to such an extent to safely make that half-hour drive through city traffic and modest congestion on its own instead of needing a tow truck.

Any input is highly appreciated.
 

madmanmart

Member
Messages
377
The resistor is for the low stage. The fans should work even if the resistor has failed.
I had a car recently that had one failed fan and it was very close to overheating.
My first action would be to test the fans.
 

davy83

Member
Messages
2,821
Yes the two fans have a connector in the radiator area which you should both inspect and you can power them directly through the connector or just buzz the fans with an ohm meter and see what reading you get it should be tens of ohms if its high or zero theres a problem. Check the relay list there are a few relays that affect the cooling circuit, and try swapping them out dont just look at them. engine temperature sensor works ok? That would stop the fans coming on. The second fan comes on early or all the time when the air conditioning is on, so try switching that on and off.
If you have to drive it you can drive with the heater on full heat and the fans running hard this helps keep the temperature down (in the engine, not inside the car).
 

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,283
Yes the two fans have a connector in the radiator area which you should both inspect and you can power them directly through the connector or just buzz the fans with an ohm meter and see what reading you get it should be tens of ohms if its high or zero theres a problem. Check the relay list there are a few relays that affect the cooling circuit, and try swapping them out dont just look at them. engine temperature sensor works ok? That would stop the fans coming on. The second fan comes on early or all the time when the air conditioning is on, so try switching that on and off.
If you have to drive it you can drive with the heater on full heat and the fans running hard this helps keep the temperature down (in the engine, not inside the car).
You have working Aircon? :oops:, I would check the relays again, there's one on the bulkhead isn't there?
 

Rob3200

New Member
Messages
3
Thanks for your replies.
Today I had some time to further look into the issue.
Both fans work when powered directly. Measured from bulkhead fusebox, resistance to ground of fans on high stage is about 2-2.5 Ohms and on low stage multiple kOhms -> Most likely the resistor went out. Along its cabling behind the radiator, I noticed cut zipties, so someone had worked on that before.
A bad resistor could explain the loss of first stage, even though its relay does get turned on.

More interestingly, the relay for second stage is never energized. Not even when running at ~100C and AC on full cooling, nothing, solid 0 V on its coil.
When high stage gets turned on, does low stay on or is it switched off? In case it stays on, replacing the failed resistor should do the trick for driving it to the dealership on a cold (0-5C) day and late at night when theres little traffic. If it still gets too warm, theres always the option of turning heater and ventilation up to max.

Check the relay list there are a few relays that affect the cooling circuit, and try swapping them out dont just look at them.
I'd be very grateful for a list of those relays if theres more than two in the bulkhead fusebox.
These two however were swapped and tested for correct operation, resistance of coil and contacts was measured. Both are fine.

engine temperature sensor works ok?
At least the temperatures indicated on the dashboard seemed plausible and, within a couple degrees, match what can be measured on the coolant hoses, should be ok.

P.S. Aircon btw. always worked fine on this one.
 

77GR

Junior Member
Messages
76
At the beginning of the conversation you were worried about the car overheating on its way to a dealer or specialist for diagnosis or repair. Now that you know the fans do work you could jury rig a permanent supply and drive it to wherever safely with the fan on continuously. The car won't run too cold because the main thermostat will recognize that and simply throttle the amount of water to the radiator. This is not a lot different than the old cars with a fan belt driving the fan all the time (however, in this case the fans and radiators are significantly more efficient). It's obviously only a temporary solution but as an alternative to the tow truck it is far preferable.
 
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babel 101

Junior Member
Messages
253
DOES THE CAR HAVE SUFFICIENT REFRIGERANT COOLANT LIQUID?

With little refrigerant ... air pockets are generated in the circuit and this may not work for fans
 

Rex B

Member
Messages
657
The fans have 2 control strategies one for the engine cooling and one for the AC and so should not need the AC to function for both fans to work. The engine cooling first fan should cut in at 90c and the second at 95c. The relay feeds come from 2 fuses in the engine compartment fuse box and the negative side of the relays run to the engine ECU . If as you say you don't have a feed to one of the relays then it would point towards a fuse gone or wiring fault from the fusebox to the relay. If you want I can send you the wiring diagram you would just need to PM me your email address.

Rex B
Manual 3200
 

Rex B

Member
Messages
657
Just looked at the wiring diagram again and it shows that both fans work but at slow speed for first phase ie 90c and they then change over to high speed when the temperature reaches 95c. So if resistor goes faulty fans will only work at stage 2, also both stages have separate relays and fuses.

Rex B
 

andy15

Junior Member
Messages
42
In regards to the heads and gaskets condition I suppose it's worth to do a compression test.

Wysłane z mojego motorola one vision przy użyciu Tapatalka
 

Jimbobtx3

New Member
Messages
6
Hello, did this ever get solved? I have basically the same issue. I've traced it to a supply voltage issue. Not to the fan supply but the relay coil. There is only 3.5v at the +ve side of the coil and that is to a chassis ground.

To answer the concern about warped heads. These engines are bulletproof. I have block tested after having these issues and came up A1. Takes a lot more to cause damage.
 

davy83

Member
Messages
2,821
Hello, did this ever get solved? I have basically the same issue. I've traced it to a supply voltage issue. Not to the fan supply but the relay coil. There is only 3.5v at the +ve side of the coil and that is to a chassis ground.

To answer the concern about warped heads. These engines are bulletproof. I have block tested after having these issues and came up A1. Takes a lot more to cause damage.
3.5 is an odd value!!!
i would suspect a grounding issue from corroded earth contacts perhaps, or that the point you used as your chassis ground was not. The relays are known to have a finite life and anre worth replacing speculatively.
 

Rex B

Member
Messages
657
The diagram in my manual shows the relay coils getting their supply from a 50a fuse in the engine bay fusebox and then the other side of the relay coil going to the ecu. The fans are both shown as working at the same time stage one is slow speed ( resistor in circuit) stage 2 fast speed resistor out of circuit. The 2 relays are fast and slow speed relays and there is a seperate 50a fused supply for the fans

If anyone wants a diagram just pm me.

Rex B.
 

Jimbobtx3

New Member
Messages
6
Hi, thanks for the responses. So I have now solved this and there were multiple issues. The 3.5v was coming from the ground wire! (connected to ECU) and the +12v source for the solenoid coil was grounded. A lot of plug pulling and ground point removal and I obtained +12v on the correct pin. I think the relay supply to fan gets 12v from the 50A fuse but are you saying the coil also does? It appears that the wires go into the firewall, drivers side so assumed the power came from the in cabin fuse grid.

I still had +3.5v on the ECU GND pin which is weird. What was more weird is the temp sender has two pins (+5v and reference GND). Checking the GND, 6ohm to chassis. The temperatures were actually being incorrectly read by the ECU. I connected a temporary GND to the engine for the sensor and the temps corrected. I continued to rip apart the interior and unplug everything. Eventually the temperature error disappeared, and the +3.5v disappeared and the fans started working!!!

Sort of points to corrupt ECU. Perhaps the numerous battery disconnections did it. I may never know but the car is now sound.


Rex B - thank you for offer. I sent you a PM regarding wiring. Will send another in case you didn't get the first one.

Cheers
 

davy83

Member
Messages
2,821
check you still have the heavy ground straps running from the starter bolts to the body, and that the connections at the body end are not rusty. If these get disturbed in any way then the engine and body grounds can jump around and starting the car causes all sorts of problems.
 

Phil maserati

New Member
Messages
7
The diagram in my manual shows the relay coils getting their supply from a 50a fuse in the engine bay fusebox and then the other side of the relay coil going to the ecu. The fans are both shown as working at the same time stage one is slow speed ( resistor in circuit) stage 2 fast speed resistor out of circuit. The 2 relays are fast and slow speed relays and there is a seperate 50a fused supply for the fans

If anyone wants a diagram just pm me.

Rex B.
The fans have 2 control strategies one for the engine cooling and one for the AC and so should not need the AC to function for both fans to work. The engine cooling first fan should cut in at 90c and the second at 95c. The relay feeds come from 2 fuses in the engine compartment fuse box and the negative side of the relays run to the engine ECU . If as you say you don't have a feed to one of the relays then it would point towards a fuse gone or wiring fault from the fusebox to the relay. If you want I can send you the wiring diagram you would just need to PM me your email address.

Rex B
Manual 3200
Hello Rex, could you possibly send me a wiring diagram please.. I have an issue my cooling fans, and my MAS air flow fuse keeps blowing. I have a m139 qp, but it would help me out just knowing if I could see what feeds the max flow meter on a 3200. Best wishes Phil