Goodbye

Lavazza · Dec 8, 2020

This is the saddest thread that I've read on here.

Whilst i wasn't aware of specifics, I took the time to read Oneballs recent posts/discussions and can now see where this has come from.

I very much hope that this can be addressed and we retain a valued forum member.

Scaf · Dec 8, 2020

Sorry to read this, losing someone whose contribution is valued by so many is a real pity.
I can see that there are some threads in particular that would easily offend and the moderators should take a look at those and we should all perhaps take a step back and reflect and use the report feature from time to time.
As for individuals, I have found the occasional use of the ignore feature does the trick.
If you do stay away can you please point us in the direction you are going especially on the corvette build so we can keep tabs.

Goodfella · Dec 8, 2020

I also hope the accused is given the forum equivalent of a fair trial.

rockits · Dec 8, 2020

It is very disappointing and saddens me that you feel this way and feel you need to leave. As others have said there are block and ignore features and the choice to read or not any threads on here. Surely this could be workable so you can still stay a wanted and valued member of the forum?

Other than the people I have met (and even half of them I often forget their forum names) I am not sure who is male/female/old/young or otherwise so treat everyone the same. Exactly as I try to do in life in general. There will always be character clashes and disagreements and live is nor different physically to virtually or electronically.

I am pretty thick skinned and am never really bothered what people say to me or about me. However, I can appreciate some are less thick skinned and/or more sensitive. Maybe can you reconsider and try to use some of the features available to prevent any further issues for you?

allandwf · Dec 8, 2020

I bumble along, I have my opinions, that's what they are mine.I tend to keep them to myself, sometimes they agree with others, sometimes not,doesnt bother me. When you have strong willed and opinionated people, on both sides, then frictions are bound to surface, mix in Brexit, and Covid, and a spot of stir crazyness and bang! Lighten up people.

daverichardson · Dec 8, 2020

I have had a similar experience on another none car related forum where I felt I was unfairly singled out for criticism (it was guitar related) anyway I understand completely your position.
I urge you not to leave but it is your decision.
Full disclosure is I left the other forum never yet to return which is sad as it was one individual that ruined it for me and so it was a bit of cut your nose off to spite your face. I am still not sure I made the right decision.
Please reconsider

CatmanV2 · Dec 8, 2020

daverichardson said:
I felt I was unfairly singled out for criticism

I hesitate, seriously, to put words in Oneball's mouth but I don't think he felt he was being singled out at least not as being white, British and middle aged.

I have no idea if he is white, British or middle aged or not. We may have met but my memory is second only to thingy's who posted up there. It seems more like a (IMHO) response to a valid perception of some of the permitted behaviours.

However, I reserve the right to mis-interpret.

C

Saigon · Dec 8, 2020

Oneball said:
I’ve decided to no longer be active on here, I’m sure it will please some I have left, and that they have “won” and got their forum back.

I find the lack of inclusion for those who are not white, not British and not male to be difficult to stomach, but I have often ignored it. However the constant support given to those who believe hatred and abuse of others is both acceptable and amusing has made me realise that this is not somewhere I wish to remain.

Hi One ball, that’s terrible and I really do sympathies if that’s what you believe. But I disagree that this forum warrants the description you have given it above, that it lacks the inclusion of those who are not White, not British and not Male. And also, that it provides constant support to those who believe hatred and abuse is acceptable ! Not a very nice thing to say, and totally untrue with regard to this forum. But if that is what you believe then like you say, you have no choice, bye! . But personally I think you should step back and decide if it is the forum or just certain individuals.

allandwf · Dec 8, 2020

There is a block function, which is useful. I have only used it once, in the Brexit thread, when opinions I did not agree with were, in my opinion, being repeated over and over. I did not wish to upset anyone, so just blocked them for a month or so. Unblocked now

Just to point out you can self police,don't fix something that's not broken.

Moz1000 · Dec 8, 2020

There are a small number of forum members that are able to articulate their views and opinions more forcefully than others using vocabulary that may seem strong and unnecessary. If you are sensitive to such dialogue (and you'll soon know) then you should refrain from further participation, and if necessary use the 'report' feature. That's what it's there for. The mods should then take care of the issue.

jasst · Dec 8, 2020

Saigon said:
Hi One ball, that’s terrible and I really do sympathies if that’s what you believe. But I disagree that this forum warrants the description you have given it above, that it lacks the inclusion of those who are not White, not British and not Male. And also, that it provides constant support to those who believe hatred and abuse is acceptable ! Not a very nice thing to say, and totally untrue with regard to this forum. But if that is what you believe then like you say, you have no choice, bye! . But personally I think you should step back and decide if it is the forum or just certain individuals.

Well said.

JonW · Dec 8, 2020

I definitely think it’s worth reading up on the back story... and not jumping to conclusions. Below is an extract from a post by Oneball on another thread...

Oneball said:
....

I’m a middle class, possibly middle aged (43) white bloke. I am significantly less well off than some here but compared with the rest of the population I’m well to do.

I grew up in a time when racism was acceptable. I may have lived and gone to school in the most multicultural part of the UK at the time. But you didn’t go to Handsworth as “that’s where the blacks are”, you didn’t got to the Stratford Road as “its full of Indians” and Leicester was a no go as “it’s just wall to wall Pakistanis” (you’ll have to use your imagination for the words that were actually used.

A couple of years after I left school I was sitting in the pub and a couple of guys who were 2 years below me came up and said “you were a racist **** at school”. And you know what, I was. I got bullied for being skinny, so I bullied others for being Arab or Indian or Black.

We all have to change.

Back to Lewis and what has really upset me over the last year is that when Lewis first said something about racism, the great and the good of F1 came out and said there’s no such thing. Stewart, Fittipaldi and others said, “there’s no racism in F1, there was no racism in F1 in my day, I’ve never seen any evidence of racism in F1”.

And this is the crux of why I think racism is such an issue even now. When a black man (Lewis) stands up and says racism is an issue and he’s experienced it, a bunch of rich, white blokes say no it isn’t and no you’ve not. It’s like saying to a rape victim “you weren’t raped it was just sex”.

I can happily agree to disagree with many of you liking Lewis or not but when the words “playing the race card” are used it’s the same thing as denying racism exists.

also, below is an extract from Oneball’s post from the top of this thread...

Oneball said:
.......

I find the lack of inclusion for those who are not white, not British and not male to be difficult to stomach, but I have often ignored it. However the constant support given to those who believe hatred and abuse of others is both acceptable and amusing has made me realise that this is not somewhere I wish to remain.

I personally feel, overall, that this forum does a decent job of moderating itself, and when there are disagreements they are dealt with sensibly... however, I applaud Oneball for calling out that it doesn’t feel that way to him, and I hope everyone sees this and listens...

Dan! · Dec 8, 2020

Is this our first forum flounce?

I've been here since 2010, did I miss any others of note?

BennyD · Dec 8, 2020

Oneball said:
I’ve decided to no longer be active on here, I’m sure it will please some I have left, and that they have “won” and got their forum back.

I find the lack of inclusion for those who are not white, not British and not male to be difficult to stomach, but I have often ignored it. However the constant support given to those who believe hatred and abuse of others is both acceptable and amusing has made me realise that this is not somewhere I wish to remain.

If that’s your feeling please go as I, for one, won’t miss you. If you prefer to throw tantrums and flounce off rather than discuss, debate or otherwise fight your corner then so be it. I find your racist demeanour very unattractive and I don’t appreciate being called racist by someone who doesn’t know me, or someone who doesn’t appreciate that other people can have a different point of view. Ciao.

Dan! · Dec 8, 2020

BennyD said:
If that’s your feeling please go as I, for one, won’t miss you. If you prefer to throw tantrums and flounce off rather than discuss, debate or otherwise fight your corner then so be it. I find your racist demeanour very unattractive and I don’t appreciate being called racist by someone who doesn’t know me, or someone who doesn’t appreciate that other people can have a different point of view. Ciao.

I've met you, and I think you're a ****. And I'll happily welcome you into my home to share a beer and a bite to eat, as we have done on multiple occasions, and explain exactly why you're a ****.

Sometimes your company is the best, other times we don't see eye to eye. It's even resulted in injury on occasion - sorry, hope you've got the movement back in your thumb now, and have stopped pissing blood. But that's life. Sometimes we don't share opinions with the people we spend time with.

The funny thing is, Benny is often the most bullied and the target of abuse (the ****) in a gathering or event, but he'll take it on the chin. Yeah, he largely brings it on himself, but his abrasive character is still character.

BennyD · Dec 8, 2020

Why thank you for that glowing character reference! Tbh, I can‘t, and won’t, disagree with it and the next time I buy you a beer I’ll explain why. FYI, my thumb is Ok now, as is my middle finger which is extended vertically upwards towards your general direction.

BennyD · Dec 8, 2020

Dan! said:
Is this our first forum flounce?

I've been here since 2010, did I miss any others of note?

It’s almost as though the public announcement of his intention to block me didn’t make a big enough statement. It irked him so much he felt he had to turn it into a thread and point the finger solely at me. Most of the abuse I aimed at him came after he accused me of being racist and then ran away behind the block button, which is something I can’t put up with.

Corranga · Dec 8, 2020

BennyD said:
If that’s your feeling please go as I, for one, won’t miss you. If you prefer to throw tantrums and flounce off rather than discuss, debate or otherwise fight your corner then so be it. I find your racist demeanour very unattractive and I don’t appreciate being called racist by someone who doesn’t know me, or someone who doesn’t appreciate that other people can have a different point of view. Ciao.

I appreciate I’m feeding the troll but your views are simply out dated and irrelevant. This edit of your original post is I presume your way of being more diplomatic, if that’s what you think, you’re wrong.
I enjoyed my time here and much of what is posted is useful and entertaining, but many posters just have outdated views, and aren’t willing to even consider that they might be wrong, which is a large part of why I only check in now and again.

You don’t need to meet someone to know if they are racist.
You can’t hold a different point of view if someone tells you you are being racist. You have offended them.
You are the one who is wrong, not them.
If that’s the person you wish to be, then fine, but don’t expect others to agree, and absolutely do expect others to call you out, and as the world continues to evolve, this will happen more often and you will continue to be left behind.
Ignoring it is not funny, it just demonstrates ignorance.
It’s bullying, and it’s not something people should have to put up with.

Sometimes bullying is welcome, banter if you like, other times it isn’t. The problem is you need a filter. This is a public place with members from different walks. You need to think differently about what you say, why and how you are degrading someone.
Rise above it and learn something new.

This place is a cesspool of privileged middle aged straight, white, cis males, to an extended racism, sexism etc. are expected, but that doesn’t mean it should be accepted.

Dan! · Dec 8, 2020

Corranga said:
I appreciate I’m feeding the troll but your views are simply out dated and irrelevant. This edit of your original post is I presume your way of being more diplomatic, if that’s what you think, you’re wrong.
I enjoyed my time here and much of what is posted is useful and entertaining, but many posters just have outdated views, and aren’t willing to even consider that they might be wrong, which is a large part of why I only check in now and again.

You don’t need to meet someone to know if they are racist.
You can’t hold a different point of view if someone tells you you are being racist. You have offended them.
You are the one who is wrong, not them.
If that’s the person you wish to be, then fine, but don’t expect others to agree, and absolutely do expect others to call you out, and as the world continues to evolve, this will happen more often and you will continue to be left behind.
Ignoring it is not funny, it just demonstrates ignorance.
It’s bullying, and it’s not something people should have to put up with.

Sometimes bullying is welcome, banter if you like, other times it isn’t. The problem is you need a filter. This is a public place with members from different walks. You need to think differently about what you say, why and how you are degrading someone.
Rise above it and learn something new.

This place is a cesspool of privileged middle aged straight, white, cis males, to an extended racism, sexism etc. are expected, but that doesn’t mean it should be accepted.

"Feeding the troll" - bullying or banter?
"You're the one that's wrong" - opinion
"If that's the person you wish to be" - judgement and stereotyping
"You need a filter" - imposing your belief upon others

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with your post, I'm merely demonstrating that we all think we're right. Just some are more diplomatic in putting the point across. But does that make it any more or less valid?

BennyD · Dec 8, 2020

If you or he think I’m racist then that is your problem, not mine. Please point out where I have been overtly racist and I will explain why you are wrong. Yes, I am middle class, straight, white and male but that doesn’t mean I am, by default, a racist. These days people like Oneball and, it would appear, you are all too quick to default to the racist accusation because you feel offended in some way. That doesn’t automatically mean that I am wrong purely because you take offence. Please point out where I have bullied Oneball or yourself and I will apologise, if you can’t then please stop making unfounded accusations. All this started out because I aired my dislike of Hamilton, the fact he is black DOES NOT MATTER. I dislike him because of his attitude and beliefs, which is my prerogative, and if you read anything else into it, it’s you that is wrong.

Goodbye

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