Biturbos/number cars/Ghibli IIs for sale

joker222sr

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Does anyone know the current owner of this car? ZAM336B00*00400208 Sprint Blu UK
Image via http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri-ghiblicup-rhd.htm

Essentially, after uhming, ahhring, prevaricating and then 'missing out' on the light metallic blue Cup in the Cotswolds, I want to track down the one I actually want, so when/if the owner ever wants to sell...

I would really like a Blue Francia Cup too and tried to track one down a few years ago. I did speak to an owner in London which may have been that car but I don't know many RHD were made in that colour. I was told by a specialist that it wasn't a great example anyway and the MOT history showed inconsistent mileages but still, if the price was right...

I am also kind of regretting not buying 'that' Blue Spaziale Cup from the CCA auction a few years ago. I know it is not loved on this forum but I can't see any other Cup ever being that cheap again.
 

Nayf

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2,734
I would really like a Blue Francia Cup too and tried to track one down a few years ago. I did speak to an owner in London which may have been that car but I don't know many RHD were made in that colour. I was told by a specialist that it wasn't a great example anyway and the MOT history showed inconsistent mileages but still, if the price was right...

I am also kind of regretting not buying 'that' Blue Spaziale Cup from the CCA auction a few years ago. I know it is not loved on this forum but I can't see any other Cup ever being that cheap again.
Looks like we may be fighting over the same car, as according to Enrico’s site just one RHD Blu Francia.
I’ve put the word out to a few specialists; Andy H hasn’t seen it in years while Mike at Maserati Shed believes it’s actually a 2.8 ‘Hybrid’ Cup rather than the full fat 2.0. Off the road since 2019 apparently
 

del mar 2

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212
French blue is a great colour.

If you strip the car yourself, they aren't that difficult what would a full respray cost ??
 

joker222sr

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Looks like we may be fighting over the same car, as according to Enrico’s site just one RHD Blu Francia.
I’ve put the word out to a few specialists; Andy H hasn’t seen it in years while Mike at Maserati Shed believes it’s actually a 2.8 ‘Hybrid’ Cup rather than the full fat 2.0. Off the road since 2019 apparently

I would consider a left hand drive car as I had an Alfa Spider years ago in LHD and it was really no bother. Problem is that a left hand drive cup looks to be 50% more than a right hand drive from what I've seen

Maybe I'll try to track down the CCA Cup and wrap it in Blu Francia if it can be bought cheap enough

I think it would have to be a 2.0 for me which would exclude the right hand drive car anyway
 

Nayf

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I would consider a left hand drive car as I had an Alfa Spider years ago in LHD and it was really no bother. Problem is that a left hand drive cup looks to be 50% more than a right hand drive from what I've seen

Maybe I'll try to track down the CCA Cup and wrap it in Blu Francia if it can be bought cheap enough

I think it would have to be a 2.0 for me which would exclude the right hand drive car anyway
It may still be a 2.0, if/when it turns up the cam cover will tell us.
You're right though, it'd have to be a 2.0 for me too.

There are a fair few LHD Blu Francia 2.0s around though, there was one for sale in France last year.
 

Ewan

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6,757
According to my list, there is only 1 UK RHD Cup in Blu Francia. Can't remember the owner - sorry.
But there is also an Open Cup car here in Blu Francia, which has been having a full nut-and-bolt restoration at Emblem. Looks fabulous, but not for sale.
 

Nayf

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2,734
According to my list, there is only 1 UK RHD Cup in Blu Francia. Can't remember the owner - sorry.
But there is also an Open Cup car here in Blu Francia, which has been having a full nut-and-bolt restoration at Emblem. Looks fabulous, but not for sale.
I know the owner of the Open Cup very well. It'll be appearing in print soon, hopefully.
 

dickyb

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Messages
432
Looks like we may be fighting over the same car, as according to Enrico’s site just one RHD Blu Francia.
I’ve put the word out to a few specialists; Andy H hasn’t seen it in years while Mike at Maserati Shed believes it’s actually a 2.8 ‘Hybrid’ Cup rather than the full fat 2.0. Off the road since 2019 apparently

Unfortunately Mike is incorrect, there were only two Hybrid Cups built for the UK before the factory agreed to make 25 genuine 2 litre cars for the UK. One of these Hybrid Cups was Blu Spaziale, the other was silver (chassis *0164 and *0165 respectively). Chassis *0165 was written off. The Blu Francia Cup is the real deal, a genuine UK 2.0 Cup with engine code AM577. It’s chassis *0208 and is the only Blu Francia UK Ghibli Cup. I remember seeing it in the Maranello showroom at Tower Garage in Egham in around 1998/1999.

I had the opportunity to buy the infamous Blu Spaziale Cup back in about 2005/2006. It was £9k and I walked away because it was scruffy and needed quite a lot doing. With hindsight it wasn’t that bad but in those days you could buy a really nice Cup for less than it would have cost to buy and restore the other one. Looking through more mature eyes it would probably be a good buy, it certainly shifts with that tuned engine and with the higher miles would be one to use and enjoy without worrying too much about values. If anyone is interested I have some information on the story of the car and how it’s second owner came to modify it, what he did to it etc and I have some power graphs somewhere.
This is how it looked at the peak of "enhancements" (!)

101091
 
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joker222sr

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26
Is the owner of *0202 known? It does look good in grey with red leather

As much as I love Blu Francia they do look great in most colours, I'd also have grey or red. Blu Spaziale is probably my least favourite
 

dickyb

Member
Messages
432
Is the owner of *0202 known? It does look good in grey with red leather

As much as I love Blu Francia they do look great in most colours, I'd also have grey or red. Blu Spaziale is probably my least favourite

*0202 is one of only 2 UK Cups in Grigio Vulcano (the other is *0185) and has been off the road for a couple of years, last MOT expired in August 2020
 

joker222sr

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26
it’s the real deal, a genuine UK 2.0 Cup with engine code AM577. It’s chassis *0208 and is the only Blu Francia UK Ghibli Cup. I remember seeing it in the Maranello showroom at Tower Garage in Egham in around 1998/1999.

I had the opportunity to buy the infamous Blu Spaziale Cup back in about 2005/2006. It was £9k and I walked away because it was scruffy and needed quite a lot doing. With hindsight it wasn’t that bad but in those days you could buy a really nice Cup for less than it would have cost to buy and restore the other one. Looking through more mature eyes it would probably be a good buy, it certainly shifts with that tuned Open Cup engine and with the higher miles would be one to use and enjoy without worrying too much about values. If anyone is interested I have some information on the story of the car and how it’s second owner came to modify it, what he did to it etc and I have some power graphs somewhere.
This is how it looked at the peak of "enhancements" (!)

View attachment 101091

Wow, that is some wing on the back! Interesting it has the original exhaust there, I think when it was auctioned it had twin pipes on each side?? Not a fan of the colour coded wheels either

I wonder if it's worth trying to track down to wrap or repaint as I'm not looking for a collector's item necessarily
 

dickyb

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Messages
432
Wow, that is some wing on the back! Interesting it has the original exhaust there, I think when it was auctioned it had twin pipes on each side?? Not a fan of the colour coded wheels either

I wonder if it's worth trying to track down to wrap or repaint as I'm not looking for a collector's item necessarily

The story goes that the second owner had previously been into modified Japanese cars and had owned a heavily modified Supra beforehand, but then wanted something different. The actual events seem to be lost in the mists of time but as far as I can gather, the second owner considered to car to be down on power and the car was eventually fitted with a Motec ECU as well as a custom exhaust system to replace the rusty original that was beyond repair and original replacements were found to be nla. After much time and expense the original engine was coaxed into producing around 350 bhp. I have seen elsewhere that this was later replaced with the last new old stock Ghibli Open Cup engine sourced from Eurospares and was then further developed by Owen Developments in Oxfordshire, supposedly to 365bhp. The car has had a number of rust repairs in the past due to the original owner using it as a daily driver in all weathers and the wheels were colour coded when they were refurbished after they were found to be leaking (a common issue on Speedline Alessios). Interestingly this car is one of 2 UK Cups that were supplied with KMH speedometers due to a manufacturing error (the other is *0183).
A couple more shots of the modifications:

"Interesting" front grille. When I saw the car it had the headlights from a late Biturbo (known as the restyling) such as would be found on a Racing or a second series 2.24v. These have the small round projector outer lights and the square inner lights. Even back in 2005 or so, Ghibli headlamps were very difficult to find and these were the only solution at the time to a broken headlight.

101094

another shot of the rear wing :(
101095

Matching black leather cushions for rear seats :(

101097


and here is the power graph from Owen Developments which I believe is from the original engine on Motec engine management running standard boost

101096

I think it would still be the cheapest Cup in the UK due to its perception amongst those in the know but its probably not as bad as its reputation suggests, its certainly had a lot of money spend on it in the past.
 
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Nayf

Member
Messages
2,734
Unfortunately Mike is incorrect, there were only two Hybrid Cups built for the UK before the factory agreed to make 25 genuine 2 litre cars for the UK. One of these Hybrid Cups was Blu Spaziale, the other was silver (chassis *0164 and *0165 respectively). Chassis *0165 was written off. The Blu Francia Cup is the real deal, a genuine UK 2.0 Cup with engine code AM577. It’s chassis *0208 and is the only Blu Francia UK Ghibli Cup. I remember seeing it in the Maranello showroom at Tower Garage in Egham in around 1998/1999.


View attachment 101091

Ah that's good news (for me), as I'd really only want a 2.0.

In the Euromillions fantasy land a 2.8 Japanese Cup (not a Hybrid) would be interesting to have alongside a 2.0. From what I remember a chap from Belgium on here has one, and the torque graphs look wildly entertaining
 

Nayf

Member
Messages
2,734
The story goes that the second owner had previously been into modified Japanese cars and had owned a heavily modified Supra beforehand, but then wanted something different. The actual events seem to be lost in the mists of time but as far as I can gather, the second owner considered to car to be down on power and the car was eventually fitted with a Motec ECU as well as a custom exhaust system to replace the rusty original that was beyond repair and original replacements were found to be nla. After much time and expense the original engine was coaxed into producing around 350 bhp. I have seen elsewhere that this was later replaced with the last new old stock Ghibli Open Cup engine sourced from Eurospares and was then further developed by Owen Developments in Oxfordshire, supposedly to 365bhp. The car has had a number of rust repairs in the past due to the original owner using it as a daily driver in all weathers and the wheels were colour coded when they were refurbished after they were found to be leaking (a common issue on Speedline Alessios). Interestingly this car is one of 2 UK Cups that were supplied with KMH speedometers due to a manufacturing error (the other is *0183).
A couple more shots of the modifications:

"Interesting" front grille. When I saw the car it had the headlights from a late Biturbo (known as the restyling) such as would be found on a Racing or a second series 2.24v. These have the small round projector outer lights and the square inner lights. Even back in 2005 or so, Ghibli headlamps were very difficult to find and these were the only solution at the time to a broken headlight.

View attachment 101094

another shot of the rear wing :(
View attachment 101095

Matching black leather cushions for rear seats :(

View attachment 101097


and here is the power graph from Owen Developments which I believe is from the original engine on Motec engine management running standard boost

View attachment 101096

I think it would still be the cheapest Cup in the UK due to its perception amongst those in the know but its probably not as bad as its reputation suggests, its certainly had a lot of money spend on it in the past.

Didn't the 365bhp engine blow, so it's now either got a 2.8 or 'normal' 2.0? And didn't he bin off the Cup-spec suspension?
I was looking at this at both CCA sales and came to the conclusion that other than the trim and a chassis number, the essential Cup jus had been lost...
 

dickyb

Member
Messages
432
Didn't the 365bhp engine blow, so it's now either got a 2.8 or 'normal' 2.0? And didn't he bin off the Cup-spec suspension?
I was looking at this at both CCA sales and came to the conclusion that other than the trim and a chassis number, the essential Cup jus had been lost...

No, it was the original engine that blew at about 80000 miles, and was replaced with a brand new Open Cup block. I haven’t heard anything about the suspension being changed but the only Cup specific aspect to the suspension would be the Eibach springs, otherwise the suspension is identical to the GT. I don’t think you’re correct, this is still very much a genuine UK spec Cup and nothing has been lost. Now that the awful spoiler has been removed and the grilles returned to standard it is pretty much a standard car but turned up to 11. It may not have matching numbers but the engine it has now makes it far more interesting in my mind. Even if it has had suspension upgrades (which I don’t think it has) that could also be an improvement. It won’t be an investment quality car without a full restoration but with a little money it could be a really nice one to actually drive and not worry too much about.
 
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Nayf

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2,734
No, it was the original engine that blew at about 80000 miles, and was replaced with a brand new Open Cup block. I haven’t heard anything about the suspension being changed but the only Cup specific aspect to the suspension would be the Eibach springs, otherwise the suspension is identical to the GT. I don’t think you’re correct, this is still very much a genuine UK spec Cup and nothing has been lost. Now that the awful spoiler has been removed and the grilles returned to standard it is pretty much a standard car. It may not have matching numbers but the engine it has now makes it far more interesting in my mind. Even if it has had suspension upgrades (which I don’t think it has) that could also be an improvement. It won’t be an investment quality car without a full restoration but with a little money it could be a really nice one to actually drive and not worry too much about.
Fair enough, the car has so many myths about it, it's hard to keep track.

Still striking out on #0208. I've tried the Maserati Club but haven't heard anything back. If it has been off the road for so long, that doesn't bode well but I guess bringing it back to life can be done in stages, if I ever end up with it, that is.
 

joker222sr

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26
Fair enough, the car has so many myths about it, it's hard to keep track.

Still striking out on #0208. I've tried the Maserati Club but haven't heard anything back. If it has been off the road for so long, that doesn't bode well but I guess bringing it back to life can be done in stages, if I ever end up with it, that is.

Just found an old photo of what I think is *0208 on my old phone and it is wearing the plate M17 CUP. That was last MOT'd in 2019 so that ties up BUT it is listed as 2790cc. Could be a DVLA error though, not like they are known for their accuracy of info
 

Cyclone1

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Messages
504
Just found an old photo of what I think is *0208 on my old phone and it is wearing the plate M17 CUP. That was last MOT'd in 2019 so that ties up BUT it is listed as 2790cc. Could be a DVLA error though, not like they are known for their accuracy of info
Was previously R508KLJ. I’ve messaged the owner to see if he still has it, but think he may have sold it a few years ago.
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