Now for the serious stuff

RichardSEL

Junior Member
Messages
130
It failed the MOT, just like an out headlight fails an MOT. Don’t see the issue.

Also I take it you had it trailered from the MOT station to the garage for repairs then had it trailered back to the MOT place?

Nope, and nope. The issue -- co-incidentally with this thread -- is that if there's no enforcement of standards of MOT tests (see Sheffield dealer's MOT test done in Rotherham per previous and my attempts to complain to DVSA) then the majority of testers (that I've come across in over 40 years of classic car ownership) will get drowned out by the few. And the whole system will fall into disrepute and public ridicule.
 

RichardSEL

Junior Member
Messages
130
You have VIP membership to the handbrake MOT lottery by dint of running a QP.
Garages cannot comprehend that manual click adjusted handbrake could live in touching distance of electro-hyraulic gear change and LSD in the luxury saloon.
Next year adjust get the handbrake adjusted a few days before the test. Easy DIY job or hour at workshop max.

LSD = Limited Slip Differential - have I got?
This is a QP5 '08MY with the ZF gearbox.
 
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Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
Nope, and nope. The issue -- co-incidentally with this thread -- is that if there's no enforcement of standards of MOT tests (see Sheffield dealer's MOT test done in Rotherham per previous and my attempts to complain to DVSA) then the majority of testers (that I've come across in over 40 years of classic car ownership) will get drowned out by the few. And the whole system will fall into disrepute and public ridicule.


So because your car failed it’s MOT (on something that is a common issue) the MOT tester is a liar and a cheat. Funny you mention the system falling into disrepute seeing as you broke the law by driving your car.

Almost everyone in the motor trade is not a crook.
 

RichardSEL

Junior Member
Messages
130
Every MOT test center has to have one and yes most go back a good few years but they were quality made bits of kit.

I just don't know. But I will find out. They were talking about not having the flexibility to make a judgement rather than enter the figures they got into the DVSA's MOT report database and get the right phrase entered into the certificate.

OToH they do do this specialist workshop's cars regularly that are Lambo's, Ferrari, a sported (in gunmetal grey -- hmmm whatever floats your boat) Bentley Continental. -- there's even a McLaren parked out front -- as their usual trade
 

RichardSEL

Junior Member
Messages
130
So because your car failed it’s MOT (on something that is a common issue) the MOT tester is a liar and a cheat. Funny you mention the system falling into disrepute seeing as you broke the law by driving your car.

Almost everyone in the motor trade is not a crook.

I've not made such an accusation -- and have been careful in crafting my reply soas it cannot be read in that way.
And you are wrong in your accusation that I "broke the law by driving your [my] car" -- suggest you engage brain before operating keyboard
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,120
I'm sure if they are testing many high end cars they will know what they are doing for sure.
Having not tested in the UK since 2014 but I'm sure there will numerous more special notices that will have been issued to warn and guide the tester.
 

RichardSEL

Junior Member
Messages
130
Richard, did they test the brakes on the rolling rd type brake tester? I presume so as they have come up with percentage figures, this is a big no no on cars with LSD, I always warn them of this and the fact they will be liable for £thousands in repair costs if they blow up my diff, they always use a taplow meter to do brake tests on mine, and the handbrake test involves will it hold on a slight hill.

Thanks for this. I did assume, given that this MOT test station is used to working with high end Italian sports cars (they're the regular test shop for the specialist workshop I use) that they know what they're doing. I will diplomatically enquire.

BTW, I did all the usual (well, usual to me anyway) checks before workshop took it round to the MOT testers. Not knowing that there was risk in using rolling road vs any other brake test system. Which is why I didn't use my usual, back street scrott cars' workshop first. It wouldn't roll backwards or forwards on hill. Switching on handbrake when slowly coasting brought a lurching stop... Good enough I thought, apparently I was wrong (?)

And for the info on Taplow Meter, not too old to learn more stuff...
 
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Oneball

Member
Messages
11,075
I've not made such an accusation -- and have been careful in crafting my reply soas it cannot be read in that way.
And you are wrong in your accusation that I "broke the law by driving your [my] car" -- suggest you engage brain before operating keyboard

You said:

“If all that wasn't enough, just had a MOT failure on handbrake:
Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects)
• Parking brake efficiency less than 50% of the required value [1.4.2 (a) (ii)]”

You said it had been to another garage for repair and you didn’t have it trailered there. So I assumed you drove it. If you didn’t fair enough. If you did drive it see below;


78651
 

RichardSEL

Junior Member
Messages
130
I'm sure you posted with the best of intentions -- however rudely.

If in the event that a car is flagged as having no MOT on an officer's ANPR then, subject to other prevailing conditions such as road conditions, safe space to cause a stop, etc (like others here I retired a few years ago -- 2011) the criteria then is whether the subject vehicle is roadworthy in the opinion of the officer.
A clanker dragging along its back box on the road underneath clearly is not, no lights and they can't be switched on, flat tyre unknown to driver, etc...

Yet an auto gearbox vehicle with faulty handbrake still has its Park. I wouldn't issue a PG9 (computer code CAD 22/PG9) and go through all that procedure for this. It would involve advising driver that the vehicle can't be driven, having it recovered for examination (staying with vehicle until recovery arrives), possibly a lost court case with Judge calling out said officer for wasting Court time, a MOT re-test, getting a PG10 issued, trotting along to your local cop shop (they're not local anymore) to get that taken in over the counter and a receipt issued. And then taking the receipt back to the MOT station soas they can release your car.

I've always followed the rule that going to and from a pre-arranged MOT test in an otherwise road worthy vehicle is permitted. It's for officer dealing to apply best judgement, and "reasonableness".

>"Vehicle categories have aligned to the European type approval categories..."

Ah, that lot again. Fortunately, we've taken back control. So don't have to stand up whenever "Ode to Joy" is played as a national anthem <retch>
 
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Saigon

Member
Messages
778
I'm sure you posted with the best of intentions -- however rudely.

If in the event that a car is flagged as having no MOT on an officer's ANPR then, subject to other prevailing conditions such as road conditions, safe space to cause a stop, etc (like others here I retired a few years ago -- 2011) the criteria then is whether the subject vehicle is roadworthy in the opinion of the officer.
A clanker dragging along its back box on the road underneath clearly is not, no lights and they can't be switched on, flat tyre unknown to driver, etc...

Yet an auto gearbox vehicle with faulty handbrake still has its Park. I wouldn't issue a PG9 (computer code CAD 22/PG9) and go through all that procedure for this. It would involve advising driver that the vehicle can't be driven, having it recovered for examination (staying with vehicle until recovery arrives), possibly a lost court case with Judge calling out said officer for wasting Court time, a MOT re-test, getting a PG10 issued, trotting along to your local cop shop (they're not local anymore) to get that taken in over the counter and a receipt issued. And then taking the receipt back to the MOT station soas they can release your car.

I've always followed the rule that going to and from a pre-arranged MOT test in an otherwise road worthy vehicle is permitted. It's for officer dealing to apply best judgement, and "reasonableness".



Ah, that lot again. Fortunately, we've taken back control. So don't have to stand up whenever "Ode to Joy" is played as a national anthem <retch>
I respect your personal opinion, but irrespective of whatever an officer may think or do, if an MOT station has failed a vehicle due to what they consider to be a dangerous defect, it is illegal to drive that vehicle on a public highway.
 

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,821
If in the event that a car is flagged as having no MOT on an officer's ANPR then, subject to other prevailing conditions such as road conditions, safe space to cause a stop,

you may find this surprising as i did, my mother's mot expired on 18th August and was still being used for local necessary trips up until a couple of weeks ago, when i found out i booked the car in with my local mot guys, i was having a chat with them that she was lucky that no ANPR cop cars picked it up, they have a very good copper friend who is in an ANPR car and the copper said that the ANPR system always flags up loads of cars and they could spend all day stopping cars, however, they simply ignore them because they know most drivers just simply forget, naturally if a dodgy looking pile of cr4P Is flagged up then they will pull it over
 

Saigon

Member
Messages
778
you may find this surprising as i did, my mother's mot expired on 18th August and was still being used for local necessary trips up until a couple of weeks ago, when i found out i booked the car in with my local mot guys, i was having a chat with them that she was lucky that no ANPR cop cars picked it up, they have a very good copper friend who is in an ANPR car and the copper said that the ANPR system always flags up loads of cars and they could spend all day stopping cars, however, they simply ignore them because they know most drivers just simply forget, naturally if a dodgy looking pile of cr4P Is flagged up then they will pull it over
That might well be so, but what One ball said is true, it is illegal to drive a car on the public highway if it has just ‘failed an MOT’ due to a dangerous defect being flagged as the cause of failure. I’m not saying a handbrake not working is realistically a dangerous failure, just that in this particular instance that’s what the MOT station concluded. I don’t think they make up their own list of dangerous failures. My personal opinion is that it should not be, but that’s just my opinion. None the less if it says dangerous failure do not drive on the MOT failure report, then it’s illegal to do so.
 

lifes2short

Member
Messages
5,821
That might well be so, but what One ball said is true, it is illegal to drive a car on the public highway if it has just ‘failed an MOT’ due to a dangerous defect being flagged as the cause of failure. I’m not saying a handbrake not working is realistically a dangerous failure, just that in this particular instance that’s what the MOT station concluded. I don’t think they make up their own list of dangerous failures. My personal opinion is that it should not be, but that’s just my opinion. None the less if it says dangerous failure do not drive on the MOT failure report, then it’s illegal to do so.

i think you may have misinterpreted my post, i'm in complete agreement that no one should knowingly drive a car that's just failed an MOT, clearly you would be breaking the law, the point of my post was that i was surprised to hear that coppers don't bother to stop cars that flag up unless they look as if they shouldn't be on the road, i can imagine there are plenty of people driving around with perfectly safe motors who have simply forgotten when their mot expires, i actually drove my M3 a couple of years back to my main stealer for a service and they told me my mot expired 3 weeks earlier, luckily i hardly ever use it, 2013 model with 2500 miles on the clock
 

Saigon

Member
Messages
778
i think you may have misinterpreted my post, i'm in complete agreement that no one should knowingly drive a car that's just failed an MOT, clearly you would be breaking the law, the point of my post was that i was surprised to hear that coppers don't bother to stop cars that flag up unless they look as if they shouldn't be on the road, i can imagine there are plenty of people driving around with perfectly safe motors who have simply forgotten when their mot expires, i actually drove my M3 a couple of years back to my main stealer for a service and they told me my mot expired 3 weeks earlier, luckily i hardly ever use it, 2013 model with 2500 miles on the clock
I totally agree with you and also understand, we have all been there. But it’s just that the ex policeman keeps saying that it wasn’t illegal for him to do so, it was.
 

RichardSEL

Junior Member
Messages
130
As far as stops are concerned, it's all a matter of "reasonableness" and considering whether a stop is "proportionate". ~ When considering a stop then the crew lead has to perform a dynamic risk assessment ~
In the past I've issued what are termed "words of advice" which carry no weight legally whatsoever except a mention on the vehicle's PNC record (it's actually not the "Police National Computer" that's just the program / interface that calls up the DVLA's database (CAD #VC)

This could be for a worn rear (not front) tyre -- advantage being with this is that there's minimal officer time taken, and if said owner doesn't fix then if stopped again reference can be made at the second stop to the date of the first.

It's all very well for some desk jockey in the DaFT to pontificate (or be ordered by a foreign power) to issue guidance as to what is or what is not "illegal". But without enforcement to back law up (nationally there's been a loss of 21,000 officers from 2010 to now) priority is being given to violent crime and stop and search for offensive weapons (particularly knives that lead to the break up of gangs and taking drugs off the street) Not met anyone yet that disagrees with that.

Committed an offence last week. My bluetooth didn't work. My mobile rang. Pulled over, parked up safely, switched off engine, took 20 min call, carried on my way. Wrong! I was still in the drivers' seat, keys were still in the ignition. I was talking on my mobile while being in charge of a motor vehicle. What I should've done was got out and run round to the pax seat to take the call.

I'm sure we all know of instances where the State being pedantic has resulted in DaFT charges being bought. The Law is not a binary operation

I totally agree with you and also understand, we have all been there. But it’s just that the ex policeman keeps saying that it wasn’t illegal for him to do so, it was.

I don't "keep saying" that at all. In actual fact it was workshop that took and returned my car. To be pedantic, they were legally entitled to take it there for a pre-arranged test coz MOT hadn't expired, and according to those guidance notes, illegally returned it to their workshop (that's within the same borough) from the MOT station after failure of said test.

A stop on that return journey after MOT failure (always assuming car was otherwise roadworthy in the view of stopping officer) would be unreasonable, dis-proportionate, and probably fail any risk assessment on that busy main road between the two...

To be fair to others in here that see law enforcement as a binary, there had been misuse of allowing vehicles to drive to a pre-arranged MOT. That's now been curtailed to either your nearest MOT station or one within your borough, or within the borough where the original test was carried out in the event of a re-test.

Who here remembers DaFT making fools of themselves over the retro-fitting of OEM halogen headlights with aftermarket Xenon HID kits? Or the banning of fogs switched on as DRLs (Volvo default) when visibility is greater than 100 metres?
 
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safrane

Member
Messages
16,749
Using the car in the road without a valid MOT would also invalidate your insurance.

And we all know how they will try to weasel out of paying for claims at the best of times.
 

rossyl

Member
Messages
3,312
So what's happening with the airbag?

All this handbrake stuff seems fairly obvious. Just get it fixed. Either that, or if you disagree take it, via trailer, to a different test centre.
 

philw696

Member
Messages
25,120
Several years ago on Hartcliffe Way Bristol a 50mph dual carriageway I was involved in an accident with 15 year old cyclist driving a customer's Merc S500 7pm in the evening.
A serious situation witnessed by a Fire Engine on the opposite side of the road who saved the lad on the scene.
My customer ran a post office and this is what caused the problem.
He had taxed his own car without checking it's MOT which it didn't have.
I was fully insured Motor Trade for business and pleasure all risks.
A few weeks later I'm in Court as it was a criminal offence to drive without a MOT.
My solicitor said just plead guilty.
On the day I thought no I shouldn't be here and decided to give them the story of course they weren't interested just make a plea.
I then said have you seen a 15 year old lads face in a windscreen whilst you are working ?
Mr Wilkinson you should not be here and sent on my way leaving the Court with thieves, drug addicts and prostitutes.
A day of my life wasted but no conviction.