Petrol/Diesel new car ban

Oneball said:

There’ll be smart chargers that work with sliding tariffs just like Economy 7. There’s no need to charge a car at times when there’s already high demand. I’m guessing you pulled that graph just. 1600-1900 is peak demand.

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Whilst I don't disagree with that it just shows how little room there is to spare at the moment. We used to have 'standby' power stations for diaster recovery, they have all been decommissioned. Our backup is now OCGT (Open Cycle Gas Turbines - effectively jet engines) which are hugely expensive to run. Our main power source is CCGT (Closed Cycle Gas Turbines) which run on gas of which only 40% comes from the UK (North Sea).

Not wanting to be a doom monger but its something to think about

Oneball said:

There’ll be smart chargers that work with sliding tariffs just like Economy 7. There’s no need to charge a car at times when there’s already high demand. I’m guessing you pulled that graph just. 1600-1900 is peak demand.

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But if everyone comes home from work between 1600 and 1900 won’t they want to plug in their cars then, right at the peak?

If that doesn’t work and they nip out at 2100 to plug in after they have had their tea and put their Jimmy’s on, won’t there just be another surge later, with 10 million cars all wanting to charge overnight at the same time?
What happens if I get up at 1am and want a brew and a piece of toast, bl@@dy kettle won’t work!

gb-gta said:

But if everyone comes home from work between 1600 and 1900 won’t they want to plug in their cars then, right at the peak?

If that doesn’t work and they nip out at 2100 to plug in after they have had their tea and put their Jimmy’s on, won’t there just be another surge later, with 10 million cars all wanting to charge overnight at the same time?
What happens if I get up at 1am and want a brew and a piece of toast, bl@@dy kettle won’t work!

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You’ll plug your car in and the charger will only charge it when prices are low and the demand is less.

You’ll be fine at 1am as although cars may be charging other demand will be low.

Anyway generation isn’t the issue. It’s where you plug your car in. I reckon over 50% of the cars here in Worcester are parked on the road.

gb-gta said:

But if everyone comes home from work between 1600 and 1900 won’t they want to plug in their cars then, right at the peak?

If that doesn’t work and they nip out at 2100 to plug in after they have had their tea and put their Jimmy’s on, won’t there just be another surge later, with 10 million cars all wanting to charge overnight at the same time?
What happens if I get up at 1am and want a brew and a piece of toast, bl@@dy kettle won’t work!

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It’s a bit smarter than that, you can set the times it charges.

This is all linked to the smart meters we are being encouraged to fit, eventually there will be a smart (or not, depending on your view) network which will start or stop charging based on demand. Big users will be charging their fleet overnight and will be able to reverse that process to support the grid if required. Owners of large UPS systems are already being used incentivised to use their systems to support the grid when demand is high.

Oneball said:

You’ll plug your car in and the charger will only charge it when prices are low and the demand is less.

You’ll be fine at 1am as although cars may be charging other demand will be low.

Anyway generation isn’t the issue. It’s where you plug your car in. I reckon over 50% of the cars here in Worcester are parked on the road.

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Yes, there are several hurdles to overcome.
Until you can pull into a charging station, like you do with petrol now, and get a full charge in 5 minutes, then for many people it will still be a bit of a pain.

Zep said:

It’s a bit smarter than that, you can set the times it charges.

This is all linked to the smart meters we are being encouraged to fit, eventually there will be a smart (or not, depending on your view) network which will start or stop charging based on demand. Big users will be charging their fleet overnight and will be able to reverse that process to support the grid if required. Owners of large UPS systems are already being used incentivised to use their systems to support the grid when demand is high.

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I do like the feature in electric cars where in winter you can use the app to have your car warmed up/de-iced whilst plugged into your house whilst you are having your breakfast.

gb-gta said:

I do like the feature in electric cars where in winter you can use the app to have your car warmed up/de-iced whilst plugged into your house whilst you are having your breakfast.

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Trust me, like is not a strong enough word, it’s epic.

You’ve been able to have programmable heaters in cars to warm them up in the morning since the 1980s

Oneball said:

You’ve been able to have programmable heaters in cars to warm them up in the morning since the 1980s

Lisälämmityslaite

ARDIC TYP 091-D MUUTETTU BENSAKÄYT.

www.varaosahaku.fi

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I know it isn’t new, but I’ve never had it before and I bet that doesn’t put the seat heaters on too!

We’re not the targets market for 2030 chaps, this is a thing for the younger generations. It is true that there are massive flaws - use of natural resources such as copper, issue recycling batteries, child labour in the DRC mining lithium, grid issues while we upgrade and move to green energy etc - but just as we all ignored the damage oil, coal and gas have done, so the electric generation will ignore these green energy flaws.

I, for one, don’t care if electric is the future for commuters as long as petrol driven machines are allowed to be sustained and not heavily penalised. I’d be happy with an electric commuter as long as i can weekend drive a v12.

gb-gta said:

Yes, there are several hurdles to overcome.
Until you can pull into a charging station, like you do with petrol now, and get a full charge in 5 minutes, then for many people it will still be a bit of a pain.

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NIO are already there with this and have battery swap stations that swap the depleted/low battery with newly charged replacement in about 6 mins I think. All done by robot at drive in station/bay. Not quite 5 mins but we are getting close to what is good enough or acceptable.

So what used to happen back in the Good Old Days when we had our Milk delivered on electric floats.
Neither Batteries or the chargers were smart then ?

We’ve just had some additional hydrogen infrastructure announced here in Teesside.


How far that goes is anyone’s guess. Also looking at a carbon capture gas fired power station and CC grid which would be a huge project if it goes ahead.

philw696 said:

So what used to happen back in the Good Old Days when we had our Milk delivered on electric floats.
Neither Batteries or the chargers were smart then ?

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The drivers were definitely “thick as mince” too,

It has been said plenty of times that BEVs are an interim or local driving solution to emissions reduction. The heavy lifting has always been planned to be done by hydrogen. We know it works - the cars exist - but the thing is it needs a much bigger infrastructure investment which is why it is delayed as it is not a 'refill/recharge at home' technology. This just needs to play out but for most of us travelling no more than 100 miles from home intra day we will be driving BEVs for quite a few years.

In 50+ years time people will look back at us as stupid and irresponsible for driving around in things that stuff smog out of a pipe at the back. The world is changing and the fish wife conversations on here are quite funny really. Sure lets keep big engined cars as long as we can for the weekend. I love the noise and feel of these cars and I will keep one so much as it is not taxed off the road or banned from places I want to go but day to day driving is going to change.

The more interesting thing is how it changes what we view as a sports car. The 911, for example, is dead on the back of the shift to BEVs. Interestingly the 992 is not hybrid enabled and there is a reason for that as it fundamentally disturbs what a 911 is. Then onto the next stage, a BEV 911 is a nothing as it makes no sense other than just a marketing opportunity. Performance BEVs work best as a motor on each wheel or axle and a big battery pack under the floor so no 200kg mass hanging out the back. Ditto for mid-engined super cars - the raison d'etre of these cars completely disappears especially when a Model 3 High Performance is meant to drive and handle really well. Sure it looks like a noddy car but that can be fixed as the Europeans get on board as, frankly, no Tesla has ever had good design.

The world has already changed as the trends for the next decade in motoring have already been set. Time to buy a couple of nice petrol coupes/convertibles and tuck them away whilst you can but no point in complaining about what is happening.

bigbob said:

no point in complaining about what is happening.

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Killjoy!

PH

Just came across this.

Phil H said:

Killjoy!

PH

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At least it means peeps are moaning about cars I suppose unlike most of the stuff on SM these days which is just general moaning about anything. I blame it on Maserati for forgetting to launch any new models for several years.

bigbob said:

At least it means peeps are moaning about cars I suppose unlike most of the stuff on SM these days which is just general moaning about anything. I blame it on Maserati for forgetting to launch any new models for several years.

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Yep, what we could do with is a rant thread to direct folks' ire

PH

outrun said:

We’re not the targets market for 2030 chaps, this is a thing for the younger generations.

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Why thank you, very nice of you to say so, however I do believe I’m older than you.