Brexit Deal

outrun said:

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Wanderer said:

Suzannah Hoffs was my favourite bedtime w@nk at that time, could be now too ....

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rockits said:

Surely a fair deal for both sides makes the most sense for both sides.

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dickygrace said:

I would accept a second no vote. If that were to happen then it would be clear, and fair, as people are now far more aware of the implications of Brexit than they were at the outset.

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JonW said:

I completely agree with this - but the question is also whether those who voted to Leave would similarly accept a change in the answer? I think half the people who insist it would be unfair / undemocratic to have another vote are doing so because they have a concern that the answer would be different now that people have a better understanding of the issues.

It’s an absolute bugger’s muddle....

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Navcorr said:

A reasonable point of view and one shared by many. Would you also say that the EU's true colours have been seen during the so called negotiations? Wattie, imho, is absolutely right that today's mess has largely come about through negotiating incompetence. Rather than Brexit consequences. A very good negotiating position has been wasted and I wonder if a "better deal" or a fully prepared no deal scenario would have brought about a different remain response.

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Wanderer said:

Mother of a thousand dead, three of them my mates...

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Zep said:

I am intrigued by the barriers to a second vote. When the original referendum was proposed even Rees-Mogg suggested it would be on the basis on an initial ref on leaving and then a final vote on the outcome of negotiations. He, and many others including Farage and Redwood, have changed this view lately. Redwood has - rather laughably in my view - said that he hasn’t changed his view and that the general election where the Tories said they would hold the ref was the first vote and the actual ref was the second vote. He is spinning so fast i’m surprised his head doesn’t fall off.

So I had a read up on this. The main argument against seems to be that by going for a second vote we risk usurping parliamentary democracy with direct democracy. This seems fair if referenda were to become commonplace. Another is that if we have a second, what is there to stop a third for those that don’t like that result. That one is easy, just make the second ref legally binding.

Certainly a number of people here who would rather not leave have said they would be bound by a second referendum regardless of outcome. That includes me.

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rockits said:

One thing that most haven't thought about is the deal being negotiated and offered by the EU to us.

Is it within the best interests of all of Europe? I don't believe it is.

Many remaining members in the EU would be worse off I suspect by the deal offered to us from the EU. Especially if we developed some balls and pushed through with a very hard Brexit if the deal offered is sh1te. Which it clearly is.

Surely a fair deal for both sides makes the most sense for both sides.

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rockits said:

I don't understand why the govt are trying to convince themselves or parliament or the people of Britain it is a good deal when it clearly isn't.

Just expose it and dump it on the table as it is for all to see....clearly. Then we deal with it....warts and all.

We went into this together as a democratic national and surely we should deal with it together as a democratic nation. Well sort of together!

Either do a deal that works or don't. It either works for both sides or it doesn't. If it does great.....if it doesn't we tread the path of the unknown. Nothing to be feared. Many adventurers have trod the path of the unknown before and will do so again. Why fear it? Embrace it and use it to our advantage.

We were part of creating the EU at the start and that was all unknown. Why should leaving it be any less unknown. Sometimes it is worse to stick to the known rather fear the unknown.

It could be a positive opportunity to create new relationships and business deals that are not currently possible or easy. It may be harder but we will soon find out and we then we just adapt to suit. Things have a way or working themselves out in the end.

I was never a fan of the concept of such a tightly knit EU from day one. The idea that so many diverse countries, nations, societies, cultures, people and businesses could ever function this close in totally harmony is a utopian unrealistic ideal. It obviously works for some more than others with little desire or mechanism to address and redress these imbalances.

I think good relations and good trade deals across Europe are of course 100% important. However they are anyway regardless of the EU or not. This should clearly be a global desire regardless of the EU existing or not.

I'm fed of with the lying, cheating and unscrupulous behaviour that modern politics embraces, encourages and what it has become. It is ironic that some of the most academically estute and most academically intelligent people in this country seem to be the shallowest most stupid people in our country. I am clearly not an academically intelligent person but even I can see the mess that they have got us into and now can't get us out of. Idiots....the lot of them.

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BennyD said:

Exactly. However, the intransigent ba5tards in Brussels want to make us squirm. If we said “f*ck it, let’s have a hard exit” the Brussels clique would eventually end up doing flick-flacks trying to do a deal that suits us all. It’s such a pity we don’t have an intelligent ‘leave’ PM with bolloxcs.

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rockits said:

Agreed. One thing I find myself agreeing to Bojo about aswell as he is saying the same. Should have been the stance from half time after first half clear showed the EU didn't give a sh1t about us or themselves.

We tried to be nice.....you were idiots so now we play hard ball. You had your chance and blew it. That would have been my play.

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