Objective views required

Wheelybin

Member
Messages
224
Okay, I need some objective viewpoints on something:

Over 30 days ago I purchased a car from a dealer and have covered approx 400 miles in it since purchase. A few things happened during the purchasing process which cast doubt over how well inspected the car had been, ie obvious things missed which I had to highlight and get agreed would subsequently be fixed so I had it looked over by a specialist. The objective viewpoint I need is in relation to the discovery of a cracked passenger side spring (photo attached). I did not know the spring had cracked and neither did I tell anything different or notice any noise since purchasing the car and neither did the specialist who test drive it the other day, it was only upon inspection that the crack was found. The high degree of corrosion led the garages to advise that this has been cracked for a long time.

I discussed this with the garage I purchased it from who said it has been MOT’d on the day of purchase and passed. They also showed me an email from the MOT garage stating they checked the springs in full and confirmed they were fine, so I’m on my own.

This is where I need the objective viewpoint: obviously I have less rights now 30 days have passed since inspection and I bought on debit card which gives me some recourse but the onus is on the garage to prove that the fault didn’t exist at point of purchase which is where the MOT comes in, assuming we believe they did indeed fully inspect the springs. Do I pursue to get it paid for or live and let live? I’m not saying I don’t believe the MOT garage did inspect and not find fault, but even so, the spring is so clearly corroded, should I be paying in full myself so soon into ownership because from my point of view, it shouldn’t fail so quickly (7 weeks approx since purchase and 400 miles covered)?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts424F68AC-BD1E-463A-B4B9-413F85D0BA58.jpeg561CCB20-9BAA-4324-9FF3-185B78E82874.jpeg
 

Scaf

Member
Messages
6,512
Well my “objective” view is that the MOT garage did not inspect the springs, well not properly anyway (based in pic and corrosion.
In any event the deaker that sold you the car should put it right - no question (well in my mind)
 

RobinL

Member
Messages
456
Unfortunately and however unfair you may think the reality is - you are on your own. It's your cost.

By the nature of spring failure they don't fail gradually. One minute fine, next minute failed although they may be cracked for a while.

I am suspicious over the email from the MOT garage though. The spring is part of MOT so if the car has a new, valid MOT then of course it had been checked - no need for a corroborating email.

The MOT however checks the car at a point in time and gives no assurance as to its future condition.

You could argue that your specialist who checked would be equally as liable as the selling garage.

(Good idea to pay a specialist as then they have a contractual liability)

The arguement of fit for purpose would only hold good if you can prove, at your expense, that the spring had failed before sale. Unlikely.

Your best bet would be to ask the garage to consider contributing to the labour cost whilst you cover cost of parts as this could essentially be no financial impact to them ( #assuming they employ their mechanics full time not per job)



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RobinL

Member
Messages
456
I forgot and it isn't too clear but it would seem that the shock body behind is dirty where the spring would have been shielding it in the unbroken position. (Dropped by half coil height) so I wouldn't be too sure if it hasn't in fact recently let go.

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Wheelybin

Member
Messages
224
Unfortunately and however unfair you may think the reality is - you are on your own. It's your cost.

By the nature of spring failure they don't fail gradually. One minute fine, next minute failed although they may be cracked for a while.

I am suspicious over the email from the MOT garage though. The spring is part of MOT so if the car has a new, valid MOT then of course it had been checked - no need for a corroborating email.

The MOT however checks the car at a point in time and gives no assurance as to its future condition.

You could argue that your specialist who checked would be equally as liable as the selling garage.

(Good idea to pay a specialist as then they have a contractual liability)

The arguement of fit for purpose would only hold good if you can prove, at your expense, that the spring had failed before sale. Unlikely.

Your best bet would be to ask the garage to consider contributing to the labour cost whilst you cover cost of parts as this could essentially be no financial impact to them ( #assuming they employ their mechanics full time not per job)



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Thanks for your views so far. I too believe the spring has been cracked for some time.

The MOT garage emailed the dealer because the dealer wanted to know why they would miss/ if they would miss a broken spring. Of course they have come back saying they didn’t miss anything.

It strikes me as a bit of a grey area, albeit your post makes it seem a bit more cut and dry. I guess it depends on whether a third party would accept the MOT as proof that the fault wasn’t present when I collected the car
 

TimR

Member
Messages
2,654
I forgot and it isn't too clear but it would seem that the shock body behind is dirty where the spring would have been shielding it in the unbroken position. (Dropped by half coil height) so I wouldn't be too sure if it hasn't in fact recently let go.

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Agreed...
I think nurturing goodwill from the dealer is your only hope of assistance...? :eek:
 

2b1ask1

Special case
Messages
20,220
Broken springs are not uncommon on these. They are not wildly expensive parts particularly second hand, Sparano Stu or one of the other forum breakers can no doubt help you there.

I’d be inclined to suck it up and save the fight for something winnable.

As far as the MOT email goes, if quizzes naturally the MOT station has to say they checked everything and that everything was ok or they would have failed it or given an advisory as a minimum. An MOT liability is for 24 hrs and they are Scott free, in so much as my old motorcycle MOT guy used to ask me not to ride the bikes the same day if (as he knew I would do) I took the baffles out...

I have recently had to find a new MOT garage I can trust as my last one of 30 years has stopped doing them following a premises move. We had a mutual trust that meant I’d get the MOT rather than a fail as if he found something he knew I’d sort it immediately.
 

RobinL

Member
Messages
456
Thanks for your views so far. I too believe the spring has been cracked for some time.

The MOT garage emailed the dealer because the dealer wanted to know why they would miss/ if they would miss a broken spring. Of course they have come back saying they didn’t miss anything.

It strikes me as a bit of a grey area, albeit your post makes it seem a bit more cut and dry. I guess it depends on whether a third party would accept the MOT as proof that the fault wasn’t present when I collected the car
Any legal judgement is obliged to go on fact. So the presence of a very recent MOT sort of wins the day.
Albeit an MOT check 'may' miss a broken or severely cracked spring, unless you can prove their negligence - they win.
The dealer can profess to having relied on the MOT garage (reasonable man test) and would also avoid blame.
Your specialist did not rely on the MOT test, and can not profess to rely on the test in place of engineering skill or judgement - but as I suspect the specialist carried out a vehicle review as a favour you probably wouldn't want to go that route. And you might have to prove the boundaries or battery limits of his inspection in any case.
As warning to others where dealers state that the vehicle has undergone our (typical) 150 point inspection - obtaining a list of those points is always a good idea.
I recently bought a motorhome, a skylight leaked and the shower tray wasn't connected to the drain - I would have thought these would have been inspected - not on the list! Dealer fixed anyway as goodwill.

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Devonboy

Member
Messages
1,289
Forget the MOT - they ain’t gonna lie about an mot I suspect.....try the dealer - if they do reduced / free labour and you do the part then that sounds pragmatic.......otherwise move on and get it sorted.....there will be more issues ahead! Welcome to QP
Ownership!
 

Contigo

Sponsor
Messages
18,376
This might be controversial and offend the snowflakes on here but take the car back to the dealer and demand that they sort that shite out immediately. Quote consumer rights if they get ******.
 

Contigo

Sponsor
Messages
18,376
Unfortunately and however unfair you may think the reality is - you are on your own. It's your cost.

By the nature of spring failure they don't fail gradually. One minute fine, next minute failed although they may be cracked for a while.

I am suspicious over the email from the MOT garage though. The spring is part of MOT so if the car has a new, valid MOT then of course it had been checked - no need for a corroborating email.

The MOT however checks the car at a point in time and gives no assurance as to its future condition.

You could argue that your specialist who checked would be equally as liable as the selling garage.

(Good idea to pay a specialist as then they have a contractual liability)

The arguement of fit for purpose would only hold good if you can prove, at your expense, that the spring had failed before sale. Unlikely.

Your best bet would be to ask the garage to consider contributing to the labour cost whilst you cover cost of parts as this could essentially be no financial impact to them ( #assuming they employ their mechanics full time not per job)



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Regardless of any test the onus is on the Dealer to sort the issue out under consumer rights. The car has only been in possession of the OP for 30 days and the act can
Carry for 6 months or more.
 

RobinL

Member
Messages
456
For cars under 6 years old major parts are, notwithstanding any warranty, a good claim under SOG law if proven to be a design fault
But consumer rights (for used goods) are based on being sold fit for the purpose and would cover known faults or faulty goods which could reasonably have been expected to last for a specific time.

However a broken road spring would be difficult to prove that it hadn't broken as you drove in some unconventional manner.

Hence my belief that relying on the dealers better nature and assumed wish for good customer relations should prevail.

The option of going to law would likely eventually fail though the threat of small claims court claims can occasionally sway the arguement. Friendly brief, 1x letter, ask again....


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Ewan

Member
Messages
6,756
If you bought it from a registered trader, surely it has to come with a minimum of a 3 month warranty, and therefore they pay (irrespective of whether the fault pre-existed or not).
 

Wheelybin

Member
Messages
224
For cars under 6 years old major parts are, notwithstanding any warranty, a good claim under SOG law if proven to be a design fault
But consumer rights (for used goods) are based on being sold fit for the purpose and would cover known faults or faulty goods which could reasonably have been expected to last for a specific time.

However a broken road spring would be difficult to prove that it hadn't broken as you drove in some unconventional manner.

Hence my belief that relying on the dealers better nature and assumed wish for good customer relations should prevail.

The option of going to law would likely eventually fail though the threat of small claims court claims can occasionally sway the arguement. Friendly brief, 1x letter, ask again....


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Yes, I think I understand this point and perhaps you have already made it with regard to a spring just going like that, but do I not have any claim based on be fact that the spring was clearly corroded through when I bought it and would naturally just break at the slightest provocation?
 

Wheelybin

Member
Messages
224
If you bought it from a registered trader, surely it has to come with a minimum of a 3 month warranty, and therefore they pay (irrespective of whether the fault pre-existed or not).

There is a warranty but it does not cover corrosion of the spring and the photo shows heavy corrosion....
 

Wheelybin

Member
Messages
224
For cars under 6 years old major parts are, notwithstanding any warranty, a good claim under SOG law if proven to be a design fault
But consumer rights (for used goods) are based on being sold fit for the purpose and would cover known faults or faulty goods which could reasonably have been expected to last for a specific time.

However a broken road spring would be difficult to prove that it hadn't broken as you drove in some unconventional manner.

Hence my belief that relying on the dealers better nature and assumed wish for good customer relations should prevail.

The option of going to law would likely eventually fail though the threat of small claims court claims can occasionally sway the arguement. Friendly brief, 1x letter, ask again....


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Ps - I think the law changed in 2015 with the consumer act, but not sure on what that means re details and change vs SOG act. I could also use chargeback with Visa