help , won't start

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
I have a cheap OBD2 reader, thats served me well on other cars - could I confirm the F1 pump with that?
Would the pump bring up a DTC?

No, you need proper diagnostics to communicate with the other ecu's, cheap obd2 reader will only do engine codes unfortunately.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,557
OBD won't get the F1 pump.

The prime sounds like a high pitched whine. It will only prime if the pressure in the system is below a threshold. It's *possible* that it's not priming because it doesn't need to.

If you leave it overnight that really should make it prime when you unlock and open the door. It could well be the F1 pump, but I'd expect (and happy to be told otherwise) that that would give a gearbox warning light.

PS the brake pedal switch is pretty visible. Just lie upside down in the footwell with a torch ;)


C
 

Will2278

New Member
Messages
15
Thanks Gp79 - that's a pretty comprehensive set of instructions!

Catman, I tried it again this evening, and you're right. The cc light is flashing. That combined with the lack of priming noise feels fairly conclusive?

So as a start just for confirmation I'll connect 12v direct to the pump and see if it will run. If it does then I guess this suggests a relay fault? If it doesn't then its probably the pump?

Assuming it doesn't work with the 12v, then then I order the Alfa Relay, Alfa F1 Pump, the transmission fluid and wait for a day which looks like it'll stay dry (I have no garage).
Pretty nervous to be honest. I've messed about with a few cars before..... but never one that's actually worth anything!

Wish me luck!
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,757
Pretty nervous to be honest. I've messed about with a few cars before..... but never one that's actually worth anything!

Wish me luck!

Relax. There's no need to be nervous. A non-starting Maserati isn't worth anything either!:laughing:
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
Thanks Gp79 - that's a pretty comprehensive set of instructions!

Catman, I tried it again this evening, and you're right. The cc light is flashing. That combined with the lack of priming noise feels fairly conclusive?

So as a start just for confirmation I'll connect 12v direct to the pump and see if it will run. If it does then I guess this suggests a relay fault? If it doesn't then its probably the pump?

Assuming it doesn't work with the 12v, then then I order the Alfa Relay, Alfa F1 Pump, the transmission fluid and wait for a day which looks like it'll stay dry (I have no garage).
Pretty nervous to be honest. I've messed about with a few cars before..... but never one that's actually worth anything!

Wish me luck!

Yes, if it runs with 12V then the pump is good, when testing use a decent thickness wiring and a fully charged battery as the pump does draw a large current.

If it runs, then it is a control issue from the either the relay or ECU, obviously if the pump does not run then the pump (comes complete with motor) needs replaced.

The job is a awkward, due to access and probably seized fittings. But not hard if you follow those instructions.

Good luck!
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,557
You can actually swap the motor out without removing the pump (apologies if that's what the instructions are)

C
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
You can actually swap the motor out without removing the pump (apologies if that's what the instructions are)

C

There is no room on a 4200 / GS.

if the rear subframe is removed it is possible....

Or remove pump, replace motor on pump, refit.

For £200 there is no point messing about.

Replace whole unit
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,557
There is no room on a 4200 / GS.

if the rear subframe is removed it is possible....

Or remove pump, replace motor on pump, refit.

For £200 there is no point messing about.

Replace whole unit

Pretty sure it's been done without dropping the frame by going in via the boot. Not 100% though

Does it not need an SD2 to bleed if you break the seal? Just curious

C
 

Will2278

New Member
Messages
15
The bits should arrive today.

I'm praying that I get a window of good weather before the rugby tomorrow morning!

Out of interest why do they call it the F1 Pump?
 

Rick1008

New Member
Messages
71
I had the same problem last week. I also got locked out of my car, and couldn't access the boot as the kill switch was enabled. Thanks to Zep, I managed to get in.

I got the beast started in the end...turned out to be the connector under the gear lever, it was completely unplugged.

Good luck mate.
 

Will2278

New Member
Messages
15
OK guys.

I just took the boot lining and ally tray out etc (going to need a bit of thought getting the tray back in as someone has damaged it on one,side and on the other side despite unloading litres of releasing agent on it, the bolt sheared - but that's a problem for later)

I tested with the pump with a 12v source straight into it and it worked. I'm going to replace the relay now and see what happens.

In hindsight, given that the relay is £6 and instead of stripping the boot lining to plug 12v into the pump the first port of call should be just to replace the relay?

this snow isn't helping proceedings one bit!
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
You can bypass the relay by removing it and bridging the two large contacts so yes, this would have been the right way to go. However don't be downhearted, you will probably need a new pump at some point anyway - or if you want to sell it someone who needs one will be along shortly....
 

Will2278

New Member
Messages
15
You can bypass the relay by removing it and bridging the two large contacts so yes, this would have been the right way to go. However don't be downhearted, you will probably need a new pump at some point anyway - or if you want to sell it someone who needs one will be along shortly....


Oh man, that would have been soooo much easier haha!!!
 

Will2278

New Member
Messages
15
OK, all bets are off for me finishing this before the rugby.

That Alfa Relay (11130287) is 4 pin and doesn't fit. Just spent an hour ringing round trying to replace it with a BMW ABS relay.. but no luck.

I'll have to order it and wait till Monday. At least at £10 its not going to break the bank.


Cheers all,
have a good weekend!

Will
 

Rick1008

New Member
Messages
71
Will I have a brand new BMW relay that doesn't fit. My car takes the Alfa four pin. I just bought it on Monday....do you want to swap?
 

Will2278

New Member
Messages
15
Now I'm concerned/disheartened.

Just fitted a new BMW ABS relay - Rick, if you still want to swap the other one I'm game - I have no use for the 4 pin one so a spare would be good.
I still didn't hear it prime as I unlocked the car or opened the door.
Long story short, nothing seems to have changed. Still isn't doing anything when I turn the key. Still have the little cc light flashing.
For the sake of my sanity I double checked the old pump straight on the 12v again and it definitely works. I also tried the new one for half a second (I guess running it with no fluid is bad?) but I buzzed it briefly and the two sounds were nearly identical, so I'm pretty sure the pump is good.

Anyone have any good ideas?

Many thanks in advance!!
will
 

Will2278

New Member
Messages
15
I was worried I'd ruled out the cheap fixes and that might be the case.

I haven't checked the level.. Do I just take the top of the reservoir next to the pump and look in?

cheers,
will