Where do I go from here?

Andyk

Member
Messages
61,038
20/30k miles.....Don't care what car it is that is just ridiculous ....... Why so little miles before it needs that.....Or is it a time thing as people don't put miles on them ? Either way that tells you that they are pretty fragile machines to need that sort of work after 20/30k.....
 

azapa

Member
Messages
1,300
Fezza only last 20-30,000 miles before suspension, steering and brake refrub.

I think Italian cars, both the engineering and build quantity, are quite lousey. Of course, they are beautiful, and we forgive them. But I have no idea why a fezza should be worse than a Maserati? Especially when the parts bin or oem fabricator are the same.

I have many mates with fezzas and the issues are common to all high performance cars, that are not used too much.

As some one said, you only hear the tales of woe on the forums, rarely the years of automotive bliss in between.
 

FF1078

Member
Messages
1,123
An answer below from a Ferrari owner an a different forum to my question of how long they last.

Great question nick.

All Ferrari's are engineered from platforms that are based on a design ethos of the highest levels of performance. As such they drive, behave, and wear accordingly. They are only really matched in this by things like the GT RS level porsches and extreme exotica such as Pagani and Koenigsegg.

I will use just one tiny part - the humble suspension bush to explain.

In contrast to let's say an MSport BMW a Ferrari suspension bush is virtually the same as a semi-pro level racing component. What I would call club-racing level stuff. It is hard and precise and deliberately selected to give the driver a level of detail, feedback, and driving precision that elevates the capability of the car way above and beyond the ordinary. The MSport BMW by comparison has exactly the same bush as the 100,000+ mile life component of the base model except perhaps a little harder rubber.

Moving up the cost scale let's take the Carbon Brakes. Ferrari fits these again as standard across the range now in pursuit of ultimate performance and the ability to not fade either lap after lap or more realistically driving hard up and down something like the futa pass on that European trip you bought the car for.

The downside to these performance parts is they wear in an accelerated way when not used hard and ironically from excessive catalytic damage from cleaning and road salt.
So...like suspension, 30k and they are done no matter how hard or soft you use them.

Ferrari cars ARE largely 'sorted' given the volumes they produce and the testing cases they are subject too which are by and large relentless high performance driving at which I can tell you their designs utterly excel.

Many lesser marques wilt at the level of hard use they can sustain.

As you go up the performance scale you run into the hard laws of science, materials properties, and the design conflict of performance over longevity. The level of much of Ferrari componentry is it wears whether used hard or not! Some of it sufffers accelerated wear BECAUSE it hasn't been used enough. Ask the 458 aperta owner having to buy auxiliary belts because it has done virtually zero miles!

If you want to access such high levels of performance it comes with a cost. Now here comes the controversial bit - it's me posting after all.

The Ferrari market adjusted and adapted to this reality a long time ago as too have things like RS Porsches.
Having mostly been bought originally by privateer racers and the very hardest charging road drivers who could afford such high level weaponry and it's up keep. As Ferrari became aspirational many people aspire to the brand but have little use for the extreme performance on offer. If most are being honest the actual time you can have your foot fully in fully planted and driving up and through gears can be counted in seconds not hours and days. Thus the majority of ownership is very light and limited use as the way to avoid big bills is to not use it very much. This is the majority case hence the 'laws' of ferrari valuation that currently dominate.

There are many ways to have the Ferrari experience from renting one for the day to ragging it around Europe for 100k miles until you and it are too old to do so. Posing or using is down to individual choice but all Ferrari's are designed to be really used in anger including the California so yes it's running costs will mirror that of the other cars somewhere between a mod engined V8 and a V12. Many of its components are actually more expensive than the 599.

Decide what you want it for and how it will honestly be used and plan accordingly. The Maserati Brand was repositioned by the group as a Mercedes / BMW competitor and the cars are engineered accordingly. Many parts are common but the servicing regimes are quite different. To run a Ferrari at Maserati costs you are looking at reducing your mileage dramatically.
 

azapa

Member
Messages
1,300
An excellent post. Makes sense.

Still, wouldn't put me off a f458. If i had only driven BMW (full disclosure: I am a huge fanboy) a f458 might sound like a worrisome proposition. But an 18 month stradale tenure has prepared me very positively.

I remember before buying the stradale I asked the service manager at the main dealer (the only dealer, here) what he thought of the brand. He told me he (they) had never had to open an engine in his 5 years there. He was also able to tell me the entire cars history, and what they had needed to fix on other Maseratis. I guess I'll do the same when it comes closer to a 458 purchase moment. ... Unless the forums scare me off beforehand :baffle:
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
I think Italian cars, both the engineering and build quantity, are quite lousey. Of course, they are beautiful, and we forgive them. But I have no idea why a fezza should be worse than a Maserati? Especially when the parts bin or oem fabricator are the same.

You've obviously never owned a French car!
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,543
LOL. Back in the day I had a Citroen BX GTi. Despite being a biggish car it weighed nothing...largely because it was made out of cardboard and plastic offcuts.

Oh we had a couple of BX diesel automatics. Fantastic things. Stamp on the right hand pedal as hard as you like and nothing would happen at all :D

C
 

bigbob

Member
Messages
8,952
GTi had about 120 bhp per tonne so was fast enough. Rode the London streets well on the funny suspension they had.
 

iainw

Member
Messages
3,386
An excellent post. Makes sense.

Still, wouldn't put me off a f458. If i had only driven BMW (full disclosure: I am a huge fanboy) a f458 might sound like a worrisome proposition. But an 18 month stradale tenure has prepared me very positively.

I remember before buying the stradale I asked the service manager at the main dealer (the only dealer, here) what he thought of the brand. He told me he (they) had never had to open an engine in his 5 years there. He was also able to tell me the entire cars history, and what they had needed to fix on other Maseratis. I guess I'll do the same when it comes closer to a 458 purchase moment. ... Unless the forums scare me off beforehand :baffle:

Really eloquent and interesting post(by the Ferrari owner) but I don’t buy it. I agree with azapa. I am pretty sure Maserati’s would cost similar over the same period to maintain - unless you were really unlucky with chipping the carbon ceramic brakes etc. With a 2 year warranty and 7 year free servicing I am not stressed about something like the 458. The sweet spot will be driving regularly but not high miles. I am pretty sure there are cars that would depreciate and cost more to run at a similar price point. The fact is - they are 200k+ cars initially so to compare it to a BMW or even a Porsche is pointless.
The 599 vs 458 debate is interesting- and all comes down to personal preference and a spot of luck.
I still think the Cali is a comfortable way to enter the brand - especially if the service pack is still in action.
 

Ewan

Member
Messages
6,757
I'm not convinced that a 599 needs loads of work at 20/30k miles. I've three mates with them (though one is a GTO version) and running costs are no different from other "normal" Ferraris and Maserati's. In fact, the carbon brakes last for ever (virtually) so that element is actually quite a lot cheaper than, say, the brakes on £15k of 10 year old QP!

I see the 599 as a cracking buy, whether short, medium or long term. It's got the engine from an Enzo and looks fabulous without being too flashy. What's not to like!
 

phills1

Junior Member
Messages
178
My ideal companion is a 458 Speciale if your budget allows to have that sit alongside it lifes too short - you can't take it with you