Winter overhaul - front subframe

FIFTY

Member
Messages
3,100
Well done, an excellent job and one done best over the winter. I urge any of you out there who's cars are keepers to consider doing this.

We are hearing more and more subframe issues on the 4200's. Also consider replacing your wishbones too for extra longevity as due to the age of our cars are really at the end of life.

Better start saving my pennies...

Each subframe is about £750 currently for a refurbed one from SopranoStu... £1500 that's not so bad as the job will be phased over two years

Then each wishbone is what... between 800-1K for lower/upper 4no of each in total about £7200 on wishbones... EEK!

I'll ask Voicey to have a closer look at the sub-frames at the next service/MOT it has never come up before. There is a bit of rust under mine, not loads and I have seen a lot worse 4200/3200's... but I know a previous owner drove to Belgium and back a few times in the winter so best check as I'd like to keep it for at least another 5-10 years :)
 

conaero

Forum Owner
Messages
34,593
Wishbones are still £395 at Eurospares I think, I would replace the front lowers as a matter of course and fully inspect the others for cracking at the innboard mounts and outer balljoint casting and replace as necessary.

You cant put a price on safety.
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
Thanks for positive comments.

The wishbones are all in good order, no cracks, no play in the bushes or ball joints so I don't see a need to replace at the moment, they will be a lot easier to check as not corroded and seized up.

In a ideal world I would but the parts cost makes it a bit excessive when they are fit for further use.

I have to draw the line somewhere and an accountant as a wife keeps me in check
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,102
Better start saving my pennies...

Each subframe is about £750 currently for a refurbed one from SopranoStu... £1500 that's not so bad as the job will be phased over two years

Then each wishbone is what... between 800-1K for lower/upper 4no of each in total about £7200 on wishbones... EEK!

I'll ask Voicey to have a closer look at the sub-frames at the next service/MOT it has never come up before. There is a bit of rust under mine, not loads and I have seen a lot worse 4200/3200's... but I know a previous owner drove to Belgium and back a few times in the winter so best check as I'd like to keep it for at least another 5-10 years :)

I'd get that looked at and get the surface rust addressed. The issue with the sub-frame is that the rust is from the inside and works it way out. So once you see it, it is probably too late. A well known independent specialist have a long history of renovating sub-frames by sending them out to a very competent welder who strips away the rusty bits and rebuilds up the internal webbing and applies rust inhibitor before sealing it off and painting. All for around £400 and the engine doesn't need to come out.
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
I'd get that looked at and get the surface rust addressed. The issue with the sub-frame is that the rust is from the inside and works it way out. So once you see it, it is probably too late. A well known independent specialist have a long history of renovating sub-frames by sending them out to a very competent welder who strips away the rusty bits and rebuilds up the internal webbing and applies rust inhibitor before sealing it off and painting. All for around £400 and the engine doesn't need to come out.

To remove and refit the subframe must be 1k easily, plus then everything else will be found kn@ckered / rusted - brake pipes, brackets, drop links, abs cable rubber boots, roll bar bushes, ball joint covers etc etc, I'd expect a full overhaul (only front) to cost 3-4K without any wishbones or wheel bearings.

It costs over £400 at an indi for an annual service which doesn't cover much at all.

The best bet is either buy a new subframe or import from one of the dry states in US.
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,102
To remove and refit the subframe must be 1k easily, plus then everything else will be found kn@ckered / rusted - brake pipes, brackets, drop links, abs cable rubber boots, roll bar bushes, ball joint covers etc etc, I'd expect a full overhaul (only front) to cost 3-4K without any wishbones or wheel bearings.

It costs over £400 at an indi for an annual service which doesn't cover much at all.

The best bet is either buy a new subframe or import from one of the dry states in US.
Not if they can do it in situ...

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
Not if they can do it in situ...

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

Sorry though you meant engine in place subframe out, not subframe repaired in situ.

Here's the lower ball joint cover supplier, needs XL:

IMG_1382.jpg

Also front shock bush are same as Ferrari and a bit cheaper but importantly readily available 157630:

IMG_1381.jpg

Worth adding to alternative part thread?
 

midlifecrisis

Member
Messages
16,102
Thanks for the advice Greg,

As a side note could someone please rotate the pictures in this as my neck now hurts studying them!
 

madmanmart

Member
Messages
377
Better start saving my pennies...

Each subframe is about £750 currently for a refurbed one from SopranoStu... £1500 that's not so bad as the job will be phased over two years

Then each wishbone is what... between 800-1K for lower/upper 4no of each in total about £7200 on wishbones... EEK!

I'll ask Voicey to have a closer look at the sub-frames at the next service/MOT it has never come up before. There is a bit of rust under mine, not loads and I have seen a lot worse 4200/3200's... but I know a previous owner drove to Belgium and back a few times in the winter so best check as I'd like to keep it for at least another 5-10 years :)

I’d be a little worried about ‘refurbished’ subframes, it could of looked worse than the one you’re removing before powder coating.


Nice work Gp79 by the way. :)
 

madmanmart

Member
Messages
377
I’d look at shot blasting yours if it’s not rotten. Then with power coating it’ll cost a lot less than £500
 

azapa

Member
Messages
1,300
Still not sure why you would not hot-dip galvanize a clean subframe. It would last for ever.

I have had steel garden projects done, and other projects right on the coast. Look the same as they did 15 years ago. Was not too expensive either. Drain holes will be needed in blind sections, which might cause structural issues, but a 7mm hole is probably a lot less of an issue than a pile of rot.
 

Lozzer

Member
Messages
2,280
Have to agree with some of the comment's here, I would much rather refurbish my own subframe than send it elsewhere. At least then you will know its been done right.
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
Sure but do Maserati even still make the subframes as spares?

Yes. Bought my new front subframe in 2016 which I have installed now, current cost £820 + vat, worth buying one if you're concerned about yours as I bet the price will only go up and availability down.
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
I'd be a little worried about ‘refurbished' subframes, it could of looked worse than the one you're removing before powder coating.


Nice work Gp79 by the way. :)

Know what you mean, hence why I opted for new as the saving on a 'refurbed' one is negliable compared to the actual work involved (time/cost).

Thanks, end in sight, got to get local garage to remove old shock bushes and press in the new ones but nearly there now.

Regards Greg
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
More progress, springs re-fitted and shocks on, they were a real pain but at least done now.

Replaced the front shock bushes, local garage did these for £20, would have been impossible for me without a proper press.


IMG_1399.jpg

IMG_1394.jpg

Hoping it will be done before xmas...
 

voicey

Member
Messages
660
Great job. For future reference, those lower shock bushes will come out in a vice if you warm the alu up.
 

Gp79

Member
Messages
1,393
Great job. For future reference, those lower shock bushes will come out in a vice if you warm the alu up.

Thanks for the tip, might have to change the rear shock bushes soon so will try that, the spares arrive too late to install when I had the rear end apart...

Going to try my stock x pipe with single cell sports cats, wife thinks its way too loud as is. Probably end up swapping it back this time next year!

IMG_1402.jpg