F1 Bleeding

Pressure regulator

Olly, well I was trying to be optimistic for you brother but unfortunately he did get back to me and confirmed what I thought, it's a pressure regulator. Here are some photos of what it looks like from my old solenoid body.....








This is what you were talking about correct that you removed? Now when you removed it did you adjust at all the set screw on the top or did you just loosen the nut? As long as you didn't turn the threaded piece that goes through the middle of it, as long as that moved as a unit when you loosened it, and tightened it back down you should be fine. If however you did move it, well........I guess you already know what a pressure regulator does so...........I'm hoping the best for you.

Ahhh... bugger! That's the one and unfortunately I did adjust the centre screw! I can't recall how many turns in it was originally, my problem being that I actually turned it all the way in when I played with it. ****!

Olly, don't beat yourself up over it, look it's part of being a mechanic or working on cars. Everyone thought it was humorous to use garlic bread to remove a spigot bearing when I did it, but I've also been on the not so funny side of messing something up so bad I cost myself another 15-20 hours of work. ( I was painting a Jeep Wrangler about a year ago in the winter and used a reducer that was to hot for the heated garage and wrinkled the entire paint job.)
If you turned it all the way in you shut if off, you were right, that was your problem. Now before you can put it on the computer you'll need to back it off. Here is what I am suggesting for now because we have no other point of reference because the service manual doesn't cover that pressure regulator. The photo above is a close up. Count how many threads you can see showing in that photo and try to match yours the same way. Do you think you can do it? I mean you are going to need a start point anyway. It you can get it close at least it's a start. Lord willing you might get it close enough to be able to make it function properly to get it down the road. I think I count 5 full threads showing on the top of that Pressure Regulator in the photo. BTW the sensor to the right of the regulator just reads the Pressure in the system it doesn't adjust it.

Cheers Craig,

This was the idea I had too. I have some photos from before I took it part and was going to hopefully use this as a basis to do an initial set up. Fingers crossed this will get the car running at least!

Olly

Okay great! So look keep the thread posted because I like to hear the success stories more than,.......well the other ones!

OK so quick update two!

Have drained and filled up the F1 fluid again today. Set pressure screw to same as picture above for the moment and then bleed the system manually, first from the bell housing bleed point and then, to make fully sure, from the one underneath the actuator. I then put the battery on and could hear the pump prime.

I then got my wife to open the door to run the pump while I opened the bleed valves again - probably not necessary but wanted to reassure myself I had got any air out. The pump runs for about 4 secs each time when the door is opened. I repeated this several times but did notice that the fluid was quite slow to come out. Does this indicate that maybe the pressure is too low?

Anyway too late to start the car now - kids asleep! - so will try starting her tomorrow...

Incidentally any ideas how often the pump should run when the car is running? I can't recall the timings when I had it last running properly but seem to recall hearing it periodically run to pressurize the system.

Cheers!

Olly

Olly, it's not going to really come out quickly, so no worries there. Once the system pressurizes, the pump will only run long enough to keep the system's pressure up. That time period might vary. I say start her up and give her a go!

1st start up! Started the car normally - can hear pump, running on for 3 secs then off for 7 secs and then repeats like this. Left to idle but after about 4 mins fluid began coming out of
top of the reservoir (it was full to the top, perhaps too full?) so I switched off. F1 fluid level warning light on. Will try a battery reset and have another go later.

Pretty sure that's not right. Perhaps the pressure sensor is set too high, so it's overpressurising

C

I did wonder that - I might try turning it down for the next run? I assume that unscrewing the pressure screw out reduce the pressure? Mind you the last assumption I made led to this balls up!

No idea which way it goes, sorry

C

Yes, Yes turn it out. Additionally if it was completely full to the top it is possible for it to back wash and run out. So that's not indicative of anything specifically. There's a mark on the reservoir for max. I wouldn't worry about the run over just yet.

Try to put it in gear to see what happens. Try this 1st, then to neutral. Reverse then to neutral. 1st-2nd, back to neutral. See if anything happens with any of that. (ie. beeping etc.) See if she will go into gear. Additionally did you have an "CC" lights to begin with for anything or just after this repair?

Quick edits.........fluid level, you are looking for it to level off after it backwashes. Check the reservoir of course to make sure that it doesn't throw it all out. That definitely would be indicative of an issue.

Listen to the gear selects to see if they are like they used to be when you shift. If it sounds reasonable enough with no issues shifting I would try a short run around your house even with the light on. I've had it go out sometimes right after the wheel speed sensors sense the wheels were moving. If it doesn't shift at all or shifts sluggish this is more indicative of the pressure set screw being off. You might need to adjust it in one turn/out one turn to dial it in the best you can listening to how it shifts. Of course without a computer this is the best method I can think of for it.

I'm running back and forth today but I'm paying attention. I will try to keep my eye on the forum for you.

Start Up 2

So checked the level before I began and was still full. Turned the pressure down one turn to see if there was any effect. Again pump primes on first power up - possibly slightly longer (4 secs) - and then on start up I can hear it running on/off. Duration intervals were vertically identical. After a few minutes got some more fluid coming out again but much less and this reduced to just a few drops after a while. CC light still on.

Too late to try gears tonight but this will be my next step later in the week hopefully!

Out of interest what sort of pressure should the system be running - I cant find any mention of it in the manuals and docs I have?

Again cheers for the advice and observations!

If you stick it on the Leonardo or similar it should stabilize at about 45-48+/- the bleed down should not be that much either. Bleed down being how fast the system slowly loses pressure. But the only way I can think to check the pressure is on the computer, unless you splice into the pressure sensor and knew the resistance of that sensor. Then you could run a gauge like you do with an oil pressure gauge or something that reads similar resistance levels with a gauge set for it.

Update Again!

Well had some time today so did another start up. Pump primed as before then on start up after a few minutes I could hear the pump struggling so turned off. Opening door could clearly hear pump struggling to prime at all. Bugger!

Checked oil and was lower than before but still 3/4 full. Decided to give it another go - drained all the fluid out again, tightened all back together, refilled and ready to go again. On turning the power back on, pump primed again.

Now at this point I thought about what was happening and came to the conclusion that the pressure was getting to high or that somehow I still had an airlock in the system. Decided to stop for lunch and on browsing on here found a link to this:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5GPboYnq_qeNE0zQ0EzWk9MT0U&usp=sharing

This has a document detailing all you need to know about the drive train and engine! In the F1 section it describes really well the system and the pressure relief screw I had moved! Pressure should be 40-55 bar at ambient temps and the pump should prime for 4-6 seconds. This confirmed for me that my relief valve was still set too high so I have now unscrewed it a few more times. Now when I switch the power on my pump primes for 4 secs but critically does not prime again for 30 secs (hopefully because the pressure is set at a lower level).

Can anyone confirm what sort of pump on/off times they have? Obviously I would still need to have the system set properly but if I had some times to go by I think I would be able to get close enough to get the car moving around again.

Cheers

Olly

That sounds far more reasonable. I've never actually sat and waited for it to re-prime. I can try if no one else does

C

Cheers - much appreciated!

Olly, I dug through all of those files but soon realized it would take me all day to read through to see which one you were discussing. Can you point me to the file and page. I would love to read it because the service manual I have doesn't have any of this information. It's great you found it! Good for you!

As to your other question I'm pretty sure that the time interval you have now is close to mine. I have pieces of my dash apart getting re-leathered after I took out the heater core so I cannot start it up but you're definitely on track. So the motor sounds like it's suppose to and it's not struggling anymore correct? It would seem to me you have it pretty close, as far as time interval. How did it react when you attempted to switch it in gear? I want to read the bar pressure part as well you were referencing. Not necessarily for you because right now you cannot check it but I was just reading the psi from the Leonardo scan tool a few weeks ago and It was at 47.xxx psi. So I'm wondering if what the Leo was reading and what they are referencing are different because if I'm correct 40 bar is 58 psi which means mine would have been off! It switched like it was brand new and the Ferrari Tech didn't say anything though so.........anyway good to know your on your way.

Hi Craig,

'Big Bob' found the link on Pistonheads and started a thread on here about it in Maserati Chat:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...1&mid=23029&nmt=Maserati+Drivetrain+documents

The one with the relevant info is Advanced Electronics 1-Engine and Powertrain. Only read the Cambiocorsa stuff but looked very useful - lots of reading for the Christmas holidays I think!

Re my car. I haven't started the car yet, thought I would find what others pump timings were and do some more adjusting to suit first. Hopefully getting closer though!