How can it be?

When I bought the 4200 last year, the seller explained that the reason for sale was that it had been languishing in his garage as circumstances dictated that he hardly had time to use it but he had put it through an MOT prior to offering it for sale. In doing this, he must have been informed that it would need a couple of tyres. When I initially viewed the car I did notice that it was shod with 2 obviously brand new but third world ditchfinders on the front, displaying a brand previously unknown to me. Fair enough I thought, the guy is selling the car and has spent the minimum amount to get it in a sale worthy condition. I can understand this as I have previously done the same.

Basking in the warm glow of new ownership (you all know the feeling) whilst blatting around on balmy summer evenings last year, none of this mattered. However, come October I found that even a slightly damp or greasy road surface would cause the most epic instances of understeer I have ever encountered. This is coming from someone who owned one of the infamous, tragically understeering Fiesta XR2s in 1982.

Anyhow, after getting a decent deal I got myself a pair of P Zeros for the front and everything was right in the world.......until I washed the car. The new tyres have transformed the turn in no end and the car certainly feels more pointy and planted at the front but my OCD has kicked in and won't go away.

I understand assymetrical and I understand directional but these things just look wrong. Being asymmetrical, they have a marking for 'outside' but no directional arrow and that is apparently how it is meant to be.



The wavy block pattern on the right of the tyre goes from front to back on one side and from back to front on the other and according to Pirelli, this is correct, however illogical this may seem to me.

This situation has sadly prompted me to develop an involuntary compulsion to inspect the tread patterns of parked cars whenever I leave the house, much to the dismay and embarrassment of my wife. Today things got worse as I chose to watch a video on this very forum. (screenshot below). It seems I am not alone. How can it be that millions are spent on developing the supposedly optimum tread pattern, only to reverse it on the opposing axle. It doesn't make sense to me and furthermore it looks wrong.

Anybody?

Because you have to have the largest tread blocks on the outside shoulder for improved handling . When the car turns weight transfer means that the outside should takes the brunt of the contact and this larger tread block ensures better steering response.

I undertand that but you miss my point. The position of the tread blocks is not in dispute. The fact is that the pattern is not reversed across the axles and as such is not symmetrical when you look at the car (from the front, in my case or from the rear in the second pic.)

Look at the second pic. The tread tapers IN from the outside to the inside on the n/s and tapers OUT from the inside to the outside on the o/s.

Yes I get that it's because the largest tread block is on the outside!!!! If you reversed them one would be correct and the other would have the largest tread block on the inside.

Sorry I see what you are saying , you are talking about the middle band.

No. No. No!!!!!!!!!

I agree with what you are saying and you are absolutely correct but this is not my point.

Imagine this as a graphic representation of a tyre pattern seen from above.

This I can understand on a performance tyre.
F
// \\



// \\
R

This is what I have

F
// //



// //
R

I'd put money on all the performance testing being done on the near side option.... Bonkers!

2b1ask1 said:

I'd put money on all the performance testing being done on the near side option.... Bonkers!

Click to expand...

It certainly gets you thinking that way but it surely cannot be true. Can it?

Many moons ago I was briefly involved in circuit tyre testing with a much lesser, non-premium brand and the amount of data collection and evaluation of various compound, lug, groove and sipe combinations was immense.

I would find it difficult to believe that a company like Pirelli would not carry out much more exhaustive and technically detailed testing.

I do not have any concerns whatsoever about the performance capabilities of the tyres as they were obviously designed by people with much more knowledge on the subject than me. Also there are many thousands/millions of cars around the world, having no problems driving about on these very tyres.

My theory however is firmly based on basic logic. If, for example, the n/s tread is the optimum assymetric pattern, then surely the o/s should be a mirror image of this. If not, then it cannot also be the optimum pattern as, by definition, it is different and as such will have different characteristics. Maybe this is to an almost insignificant nth degree but nevertheless it is different. Thus in investing in this premium brand, it could be argued that I am effectively driving on mis-matched tyres.

Also, it looks wrong which is still bugging me.

I think you're locigal base is flawed in some assumption. No idea what the flaw is but I rather suspect Pirelli know what they're doing

Other thing is they're throwing the water out from the centre of the car (my understanding)

It may well make no difference to the performance of the tyre, and they only need one mould.

The Falken 453's are the same in that they only have an outside and an inside.

C

Bridgestone are a client of mine - tread pattern makes very little real difference to the performance on road tyres. Most of it is about aesthetics, once they have taken care of water dispersal, hence the virtually slick outer edge for maximum grip in the dry, and a more aggressive tread to shift water across the rest of the tyre. The rubber compound makes an immense difference though, and contains a surprisingly complex mixture of chemical components.

I a certain Pirelli know what they are doing and you are probably right about the mould. Obviously not having handed tyres would save on tooling, reduce the number of inventory variants and help speed stock turnover. Seems a strange strategy to apply to the sexy high speed rated end of the range though.





CAPO - Hi Luigi, have your team completed the development of the new performance tyre?

LUIGI - Yes boss.

CAPO - How did it go.

LUIGI - Fantastic boss. We feel we have created a class leading tyre which will crush all our competitors in the market segment catering for owners of cheap, leggy 10 year old Maseratis at the bottom of their depreciation curve.

CAPO - Fantastico!

LUIGI - Prego.

CAPO - How have you achieved this feat?

LIUGI - Well boss we did extensive tests in the arctic circle and the Gobi desert and our nearside tyre design is unbeatable.

CAPO - OK. What about the offside?

LUIGI - Err...... Well we didn't bother as we just thought that most people tend to plump for a replacement Falken 453 as they are a bit cheaper and seem to get decent reviews on the internet. Alternatively we could advise people to just throw one of our nearside products on backwards. Probably wouldn't make much difference.

CAPO - Genius!! Lets go for a long lunch.

====================================

PS. here is a photo of Luigi which I managed to smuggle out of Pirelli HQ.

drewf said:

tread pattern makes very little real difference to the performance on road tyres. Most of it is about aesthetics

Click to expand...

Then why make them look wrong?

very good

Love it AG

Clearly, however, you are missing the critical bit. It was either
a) Work on an offside tyre
b) go to a cafe, drink espresso and be cool....

C

My Verdisine were the same...and it just did not look right

it was b)

I know what youy mean, pattern looks wrong on one side, even with bigger blocks on outside, the grooves are running a different direction. I have seen some with outside and direction arrows, but it means you cant swap sides.

ocd does not begin to describe this topic.................

dem maser said:

it was b)

Click to expand...

It's *always* b

C

highlander said:

ocd does not begin to describe this topic.................

Click to expand...

Maybe but it is a valid query. Given the complex intricacies and variation in the size and shape of tread blocks and the width, direction and angles of grooves in a modern performance tyre, I would assume they are each designed the way are, purely on technical merit. If this were not the case, then a manufacturer could just give every tyre in the range a basic square block pattern and be done with it.

To go to all this trouble and then to suggest that the same tyre must be fitted backwards on the other side, changing all these intricate angles sort of takes away the belief that differences in the tread pattern are at all important. It effectively is a different tyre.

Can't you see man? Stuff like this really matters. What is wrong with you? Pfft.