Clutch replacement.

Scanning through this section I can't see anything relating to (4200) clutch replacement, so as I'll be changing mine in the next couple of months I thought I'd get the ball rolling.

Clutch change, what's involved..

Clutch.
Spigot bearing.
Flywheel (if necessary)
Clutch sensor(s). Not sure about this one and would appreciate more details. Is the clutch sensor active and controlled through the engine management software, or is it passive, only useful when attached to SD2/3?

Anything else to take into account?

Loz is our resident clutch expert and is away in Le Mans for the next 5 days, so he should be able to respond upon his return.

I have PM'd him to respond to this thread.

Hi Emtee,

Am I right in assuming you are going to do a DIY clutch change at home? Having thought about this everything seems a pretty straight forward mechanical job ie. Exhaust off, Disconnect the prop casing both ends, unbolt the gearbox and manhandle it back a few inches so prop can be renoved, remove bell housing, and you are at the clutch. Normally it would just be a srtaight swap but it appears that firstly the new clutch comes unballanced for some strange reason ( i'm sure Valeo do some form of ballancing before it leaves the factory ) and it requires ballancing once fitted. This is done using shims and running the engine using the dammed SD2/3 I think they fit a tempory sensor to the clutch housing for this. The strange thing is you can inspect your clutch by removing the exhaust mount off the bell housing , I did this when looking for a rattle and whilst turning the engine with a spanner did not see any signs of any shims on my clutch, that was replaced 2 thousand miles ago. Perhaps it was just luck that none were needed??? Also the Kiss point requires setting up but I've wondered if this could be done by a specialist after you have done the hard work. Not sure how much of this ballancing is essential or just scaremongering in order to keep our hands off and their pockets lined. I'm sure I'll get shot down for this view but who cares, I'm too long in the tooth to worry, stick & stones and all that.
Has nobody heard of a clutch being changed without specialist equipment before?
Anyway good luck and we will all be watching this space.
Keith

As I see it guys, the balancing is done on the car, by connecting the balancing sensor to SD3:



Good luck with it! I know someone on maseratilife did it themselves, might be worth a trip over there for a few pointers.

Yeah, it would be good to get a few opinions on this.....see where it takes us, whether there is more can be done by a good mechanic etc....


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You can add to your list for discussion
Thrust bearing
Bell Housing bearing

Here ya go....courtesy of Maseratilife!


http://maseratilife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7539


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Well spotted Frank, I have PM Victory to invite him over and asked if we can nab his images and write up

Interesting Point:

The Kiss point is a more like a remapping of your current shift grid it just aligns everything up with the TCU(F1 control unit), it should only be performed at the beginning of the life of the clutch life or when having shifting issues, due to it resets clutch to zero wear so you have to get before and after parameters to know actual wear of the clutch. Example I've seen clutches with 30% clutch wear that are completely worn, then you look up history and realize the kiss point was performed at 70% clutch wear. Kiss point can only be performed on Coupe, GS, Spider 05' & up and all F1 QP's.

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So a dealer could reset the KIS point and then sell the car with low or little clutch wear showing. So dont rely on SD readouts when buying a used Maserati.

Another point:

We are concidering doing the clutch ourselves, but i was wondering: Didn't you have to do rebalancing the clutch with the SD2 tester?
According to our dealer/parts supplier, a balancing session should be done to compensate unbalance in the new flywheel/clutch combination.
They also told me NOT to drive the car at all after finishing the job, but to bring it to theire workshop in order to set the PIS/KIS first?!
Otherwise it could be possible to ruin the clutch during its first drive.
Is this correct in your opinion? (06 GS)

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Your dealer is very correct and it would be worth the extra cost of having them do it, but these days I may go with an independent first who has either an SD2, SD3, or an ST5.

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So basically, you can do the clutch yourself, then take it to an indie on a trailer for balancing. I dont know how long this takes but should imagine that an hours labour should cover it.

Ill tell you what, I would consider doing this now myself if it goes again where I thought is was previously impossible. Should cost under £400 so about 33% of what an indie would charge.

That seems like a lot of effort though, because the indie has to mount the complet exhaust back again and some other stuff, to do the balancing session at the running engine.
Then afterwards, you have to demount everything again in order top put back the tranny and torque tube.
After that you have to go back again to do the kis/pis adjustments.
I studied this route, but came to the conclusion that it seems absurd.
My car is having a new clutch next week and though being sorry not to be able do do this job myselve, i am convinced it would have saved just a little money in the end, while bringing a lot of stress.
And if something went bad, the arguing starts; who has done what wrong.....?

boomerang said:

That seems like a lot of effort though, because the indie has to mount the complet exhaust back again and some other stuff, to do the balancing session at the running engine.
Then afterwards, you have to demount everything again in order top put back the tranny and torque tube.
After that you have to go back again to do the kis/pis adjustments.
I studied this route, but came to the conclusion that it seems absurd.
My car is having a new clutch next week and though being sorry not to be able do do this job myselve, i am convinced it would have saved just a little money in the end, while bringing a lot of stress.
And if something went bad, the arguing starts; who has done what wrong.....?

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Not being a mechanic.......I couldn't truly comment........hes done 200 plus of these...............reckons it takes 13/14 hrs........................cos of all the dismounting/mounting of parts.......all seems a bit OTT. Will await further thoughts from all in the know!!


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Thanks Luuk for clearing that up, I am with you now on that one, did not realise they had to do so much to balance it.

Could well be the reason for some technicians NOT to do the balancing as i am told.
According to some, balancing the clutch would be totally unnescecery because of improved factory balancing of the involved parts.....
Sounds to good to be true if i am honest.
If so, things would look quite different.
Earlier i suggested demounting the flywheel too, bringing it together with the new clutch to a balancing specialist.
Balancing the mounted clutch together with the flywheel outside the car, could prevent having to visit the indy/dealer twice.
A well equiped balancing firm can do a perfect job, i think maybe better compared with the results of a balancing session on the car with the SD 2/3 tester at a running combustion engine.
In that case, you only had to visit the indy for pis/kis adjustment.
I decided however, not to go that route.

How about approaching the manufacture, Valeo?

Surely this clutch and type is not the sole property of Ferrari Maserati?

http://www.valeo.com

There's 2 settings on the clutch that I have been told about by 2 very well thought of independents.
The famous PIS (Point of Initial Slippage) which is normally between 4.8mm and 5.4mm. If it's lower than this then the car can creep forward when stationary and you can risk damaging the syncromesh as the clutch may never truly disengage. If it's higher then it may not engage quick enough or slip frequently and therefore wear very quickly. I've highlighted the word normally as mine is set at 4.3 because it doesn't engage quick enough at anything much higher than this and it isn't creeping.
The other setting I'm not too sure of but it's used when installing a new clutch and if this is changed during the clutch's life then you lose the accuracy of the wear reading.

Conaero said:

How about approaching the manufacture, Valeo?

Surely this clutch and type is not the sole property of Ferrari Maserati?

http://www.valeo.com

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Unfortunately it is matt, Valeo will only supply recommended suppliers of Maserati parts , ive already been down this route , my local Mr Clutch centre did a manual coupe about a year ago and had to send the car off to an indie for balancing and set up , they wont touch another Maserati , think they lost money on the job and the higher archy have told them not to take on any more , indie or dealer is the only true way , i'll give this some more time tomorrow

regards loz

JAGPURR said:

Hi Emtee,

Am I right in assuming you are going to do a DIY clutch change at home?

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Hi Keith, Sorry I should have said I'm shortly going to have mine changed. I am no DIY mechanic and would be truly dangerous with a spanner!

Just wanting to get the shopping list together and to understand what the potential problems / pitfalls might be before handing it all over to my local indi'.

Cheers, Miles.

I have an update on the home DIY of the clutch, apparently there is a guy doing the rounds in London that is a mobile SD3 service. I know someone meeting up with him on Saturday, so Ill keep you posted with the outcome, rates etc.

Now if that was reasonable, and you can get your car high enough off the deck, then it will be possible to do your own clutch.

Conaero said:

I have an update on the home DIY of the clutch, apparently there is a guy doing the rounds in London that is a mobile SD3 service. I know someone meeting up with him on Saturday, so Ill keep you posted with the outcome, rates etc.

Now if that was reasonable, and you can get your car high enough off the deck, then it will be possible to do your own clutch.

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Reckon hes mobile enough to get to N Ireland....a day return!!






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PS Sounds like an avenue worth exploring......just wondering on his "pedigree"......and familiarity with Maseratis!

Well Frank we shall see in due corse but if he has forked out £30k for the kit, I would expect him to know his onions. Apparently he is used by the main dealers.

Conaero said:

Well Frank we shall see in due corse but if he has forked out £30k for the kit, I would expect him to know his onions. Apparently he is used by the main dealers.

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Ok, will await the feedback...and of course Conaero....being the business man you are, you will no doubt negotiate a significant discount for all the SE region members of Sportsmaserati!!!





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