Weight Reduction INFO

LDM 3200

Junior Member
Messages
488
#21
Always thought the standard 3200 wheels were heavy - a nice set of magnesium or carbon fibre would be nice!
An interesting thread thanks.
 

mjheathcote

Centenary Club
Messages
6,033
#22
I've got the forgestar F14 wheels (from Formula Dynamics) and they are supposed to be lighter than the originals, must weight my original BBS wheels for comparison.
Also having larger diameter wheels can cost weight, probably an additional 10Kg in total going from 18"(32/42) to 19"(GS).
Aluminium belled brake discs will have a few Kg's too.
 

tcrote5516

Junior Member
Messages
77
#23
I can't get over the complete lack off weight savings in the design of this car, especially the interior. The steel trim on the doors, the center console bezel it's built more like a tank than a sports car; yes I know it's a touring car, but weight is the only thing stopping it from competing as a true sports car. I'd bet you could strip close to 500lbs off the car with little effort and minimal loss of functionality.
 

Twinturbo

Junior Member
Messages
101
#24
I can't get over the complete lack off weight savings in the design of this car, especially the interior. The steel trim on the doors, the center console bezel it's built more like a tank than a sports car; yes I know it's a touring car, but weight is the only thing stopping it from competing as a true sports car. I'd bet you could strip close to 500lbs off the car with little effort and minimal loss of functionality.
Exactly,lots of weight everywhere but it's for comfort and part of the prestige and appeal of the car , just make sure if you take anything off do it slowly they have so many hidden clips and bolts it's outrageous so take your time as not to break cause you'll be reinstalling one day .Only thing stopping me going full out on a nude diet is this car doubles as my second family car now that's another thing that's so cool about owning a Maserati you can throw a couple of babies in the back and the hooks are there for the seats too lol, from memory I don't think the back seats weighed too much maybe bottom half 5kg top 10kg, I need to get off my *** and unravel my crate I got all the interior air tight packed away in one so I can grow the list of weighted parts on page one, will get some wheel and tyre weights up too
 

Twinturbo

Junior Member
Messages
101
#25
Hey guys been a while but can someone please help
Me find out the weight of the oem front and back wheel
And tyres for the 3200gt? Mine came with aftermarket bbs and I’m really interested in finding out exactly where I’m at with reduction I’m over 100kg atm easy and have all seats and nothing suspicious other than race seats from appearance wise ,need those wheel and tyres figures please 
 

Twinturbo

Junior Member
Messages
101
#27
Rear wheel with pirelli p zero tyre on 25.8 kgs. Front wheel with pirelli p zero tyre on 22.6 kgs.
HTH
Cheers
Mike
Thanks very much Mike much appreciated, can easily shave 10-15kg off the total of that with other wheels my Bbs
19x10 295/30/19 continental( 23.5kg), 19x8.5 245/35/19 pirelli (22.6kg)
My 18inch Bola wheels are lighter again just need to weigh them when I get time
 
Messages
1,478
#28
Some years ago (before this forum was established) 'MaseratiForum.co.uk' carried a long thread about weight reduction on the 3200, and there was spirited debate about the merits of sprung/unsprung weight and what could be achieved for either. IIRC, the upshot was that unless you get really radical you're not going to achieve much improvement either in performance or handling, though there's obviously no harm in trying. Sadly, the old forum can no longer be accessed.

There was also an unconfirmed story that 3200 engines were detuned (I think by altering the valve timing) to avoid embarrassing Ferrari performance figures, and some folk claimed significant improvements on their 3200's by having the timing checked/corrected; whether the evidence stacks up is anyone's guess, but it is food for thought. However, Voicey (AV Engineering – forum sponsor) emphasises the importance of correct valve clearance for the 3200 so it might be worth a thought:

https://aldousvoice.com/2016/11/09/maserati-3200-valve-clearance/

PH
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
1,457
#29
There is an undeniable benefit to even a small decrease in vehicle weight, particularly in rotating parts of the drive train prior to the gearbox. The reason for this is gear ratios. A gear ratio is basically a lever increasing the applied torque. A good example of this is using a long bar to undo a tight bolt. The long bar multiplies the torque, making it easier to undo the bolt it also means the end of the bar has to move further to give the same number of rotations of that same bolt.

If you think that in first gear the engine turns around four times for one turn of the road wheel compared to in top gear where it is more like 1 to 1. This means that if you remove 10 kg of weight from the flywheel (or another part of the engine internals) the engine actually sees this as a reduction of 40 kg because of the gearing effect.

To put it another way, if first gear has an overall ration of 4 to 1, this means that the effective mass of a 2000 kg car would be 500 kg. Because they are located before the gearbox the effective mass of the engine internal components remains the same regardless of the gear. So for a 10kg reduction in the engine rotating mass equates to 2% of the effective vehicle mass (or 40 kg) in first gear, but in top gear (say 1 to 1) the reduction of 10 kg is 0.05% of the vehicle mass (due to there being no gearing effect) and so remains 10 kg. Of course taking the seats out of a car is cheaper than having the flywheel machined so you pay your money and take your choice. This does at least explain why race engines never idle well, they have paper thin flywheels to increase acceleration in the lower gears.
 

Twinturbo

Junior Member
Messages
101
#31
Some years ago (before this forum was established) 'MaseratiForum.co.uk' carried a long thread about weight reduction on the 3200, and there was spirited debate about the merits of sprung/unsprung weight and what could be achieved for either. IIRC, the upshot was that unless you get really radical you're not going to achieve much improvement either in performance or handling, though there's obviously no harm in trying. Sadly, the old forum can no longer be accessed.

There was also an unconfirmed story that 3200 engines were detuned (I think by altering the valve timing) to avoid embarrassing Ferrari performance figures, and some folk claimed significant improvements on their 3200's by having the timing checked/corrected; whether the evidence stacks up is anyone's guess, but it is food for thought. However, Voicey (AV Engineering – forum sponsor) emphasises the importance of correct valve clearance for the 3200 so it might be worth a thought:

https://aldousvoice.com/2016/11/09/maserati-3200-valve-clearance/

PH
I'm running 285/30/18 instead of the stock 265/35/18 to give a nice little add of grip and closer ratio jump in acceleration every little bit helps and it's within legal tolerances
 

Twinturbo

Junior Member
Messages
101
#32
I’m running 285/30/18 instead of the stock 265/35/18 to give a nice little add of grip and closer ratio jump in acceleration every little bit helps and it’s within legal tolerances
Great link and info I just love thiese pearls of wisdom that pop up about our cars well done mate and thanks , I will be detailing my 100kg+ Street reduction mods in detail when I get time from work and the family bugging me for attention say in day out lol
 

Team GCR

Centenary Club
Messages
1,023
#34
Like others the biggest weight gain I could achieve is by eating and drinking less
Agreed Andy, and the most cost effective way for most people to go faster on a trackday is to spend some time with an ARDS licensed instructor. I am willing to wager most people will see a much more significant drop in lap time than stripping weight out of a 4200 ro similar.
 

Twinturbo

Junior Member
Messages
101
#35
This subject isn’t for everyone obviously , especially those who don’t have experience or like to touch their own cars just give to mechanics to guess the next cel lights unless u get to know the ins and outs of the 3200gt and learn to work
On most small problems
Yourself good luck keeping it out of a garage and your wallet out of the hands of those garage owners too
 

Team GCR

Centenary Club
Messages
1,023
#36
Personally I am very into the effect of weight but I personally can't see the point of taking a heavy car and trying to make it lighter to improve lap time on a track day. As I said earlier you will greatly improve your lap time and enjoyment with some decent instruction and it will cost a fraction of trying to lighten the car.

Also Zag's point is a good example of many a true word is spoken in jest. I remember standing on the pit wall at Silverstone waiting for our Free Practice to start watching young drivers in a Fiesta championship (we were running a Formula Ford) a father was asking the guys running his (16 year olds approx) son's car that was the slowest in the field by some margin what they could do to make it quicker, intimating money wasn't an object. When their session ended the cars came in and this dad went over to his son's car and when this lad got out he must have been 18 or 20 stone so he probably weighed more than double all the other kids his age he was racing against! Need I say more?

If I want a light track day car I would start with a light car ie my Lotus 340R or similar.

Having said that if you are going to remove heavy items from something like a 4200 you also need to consider how it will affect the weight distribution because if you change that it can alter the handling characteristics of the car.

For example when we ran the Ginetta G50 in the 09 FIA GT4 Euro championship the BoP got really silly and the extra weight imposed on us had to go in the FIA approved ballast tray which bolted into the area where a passenger seat would be in a road car and this played havoc with the balance of the car. To compensate Ginetta produced an extra thick steel rear floor to replace the GRP one to help us add weight legally elsewhere in the car.

Even on a road car you will be amazed at the difference doing the corner weights can make to the feel and balance of the car. We did the corner weights on my old Impreza STi Spec D and it transformed the handling, made it much more like my previous WR1 in terms of handling balance.

As an aside I am lucky enough to have spent a fair amount of time sat in on instruction with one of the worlds best race driver coaches, this is obviously way beyond track day stuff but alot of what is being taught is how to manage the weight transfer in the car as you drive round the circuit and the driving techniques to best achieve this, fascinating stuff.
 

zagatoes30

Centenary Club
Messages
10,264
#37
An Alfa specialist when I asked of how to make it go faster responded with the "learn to drive it properly" - good advice, proper tuition makes a massive difference.
 

Tufan

Junior Member
Messages
175
#38
Twinturbo said he has Bbs 19x10 295/30/19. Are 3200 and GS/4200 same for fitting to the wheel arc?
I also think of wider rears for track and there are sligtly used pirelli trofeos from rich Porsches owners which I can use for my track day. And then I'm thinking if 18" would add significant benefit to acceleration? What would be the best combination.
 
Messages
1,850
#39
Agreed Andy, and the most cost effective way for most people to go faster on a trackday is to spend some time with an ARDS licensed instructor.
An Alfa specialist when I asked of how to make it go faster responded with the "learn to drive it properly" - good advice, proper tuition makes a massive difference.
A point amply demonstrated when a Scottish woman called Jackie Stewart took 20s off of Captain Slow's best time.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2o54o2