future classics?

Andy Marshall

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297
The largest 15 Container ships in the world emit more CO2 than all of the cars in the world.
Not disputing that. HFO consumption on ships is a messy business. The switch to low sulphur MDO, LNG or blended fuels helps a bit with emissions (particularly SOx) but moving that much freight was always going to incur environmental costs.
I was simply correcting the assertion that there were millions of tankers
 

GeoffCapes

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14,000
Not disputing that. HFO consumption on ships is a messy business. The switch to low sulphur MDO, LNG or blended fuels helps a bit with emissions (particularly SOx) but moving that much freight was always going to incur environmental costs.
I was simply correcting the assertion that there were millions of tankers

The switch to LNG etc will take just as long as the switch to electric cars.
My personal argument is that the motorist is the easy target, when the shipping industry, being the biggest pollutants should be tackled first.
 

zagatoes30

Member
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20,758
IMO it is supply and demand that drive the classic market just like most other commodities.

If there is limited supply only a small amount of demand drives a rising market but to drive a rising market with a larger supply you need a significantly higher demand. Demand is driven by the need to own, the poster on your bedroom wall when you were 10 or what you couldn't afford to buy or insure when you were 18-25, the car that those better off than you drove, the car you desired etc.

e.g.

Ferraris (most models) limited supply but an aspirational purchase, a status symbol - strong demand strong money
MK1 Golf GTi, 205 GTi, Sporty Escorts all icons of their era, all just out of reach when you were young, all massed produced but you don't forget your icons and hence mass of demand and hence strong money.

Maseratis fall bang in the middle, generally more supply than a Fezza or Lambo but less of an icon and hence less demand.. Who had a Maserati on their bedroom wall, who knew someone that bit better off than them that drove a Maser, who desperately wanted one over everything else - all small in numbers and hence low demand.

I don't see this changing other than supply will reduce so rises will be gradual. It is one of the things I like about Maserati, it is a individual choice not one made by the thousands of sheep who blindly follow trends and IMO long may it last, I like to be different.
 

Contigo

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18,376
IMO it is supply and demand that drive the classic market just like most other commodities.

If there is limited supply only a small amount of demand drives a rising market but to drive a rising market with a larger supply you need a significantly higher demand. Demand is driven by the need to own, the poster on your bedroom wall when you were 10 or what you couldn't afford to buy or insure when you were 18-25, the car that those better off than you drove, the car you desired etc.

e.g.

Ferraris (most models) limited supply but an aspirational purchase, a status symbol - strong demand strong money
MK1 Golf GTi, 205 GTi, Sporty Escorts all icons of their era, all just out of reach when you were young, all massed produced but you don't forget your icons and hence mass of demand and hence strong money.

Maseratis fall bang in the middle, generally more supply than a Fezza or Lambo but less of an icon and hence less demand.. Who had a Maserati on their bedroom wall, who knew someone that bit better off than them that drove a Maser, who desperately wanted one over everything else - all small in numbers and hence low demand.

I don't see this changing other than supply will reduce so rises will be gradual. It is one of the things I like about Maserati, it is a individual choice not one made by the thousands of sheep who blindly follow trends and IMO long may it last, I like to be different.

Spot on. Like anything supply and demand drives the prices. Nostalgia sells too and that is what is driving the boom in 80's hot hatches right now as you rightly say those people who lusted and aspired to own one back in the day now have some disposable cash and want to live the dream.
 

masertel

Member
Messages
102
The largest 16 Container ships in the world emit more pollution than all of the cars in the world.

https://www.lngtransfer.com/news/th...ore-pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world/
The largest producers of methane gas are farting cows and there are 10's of millions of of them- eat more steak and save the planet!!! 3200 & 4200 are sure to be collectable and a good invest at the moment- short production period and lowish numbers help to ensure this. Best reason to buy one though is to enjoy one of the best high performance GT cars on the road.
 

Corranga

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1,219
The switch to LNG etc will take just as long as the switch to electric cars.
My personal argument is that the motorist is the easy target, when the shipping industry, being the biggest pollutants should be tackled first.

The ships are actually pretty decent in terms of pollution per ton of freight. As an example, a container ship with 8,000 cars on it travelling 10,000 miles pollutes less than 8,000 cars being driven 10,000 and uses a lot less fuel too.

The motorist is an easy target though, you're right. Industry gets away with it, but then where does the solution lie?
Banning all new car imports for a year, or even stop manufacturing cars for a year. Environmentally would make so much more difference than maybe even 3 or 4 decades of electric cars over petrol ones. It'll never happen though!

I think the actual answer (in terms of cutting down pollution) is to target meat eaters.
If we all stop eating meat, not only will that go a long, long way to cutting pollution, but potentially will also solve world hunger.
 

zagatoes30

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20,758
I think the actual answer (in terms of cutting down pollution) is to target meat eaters.
If we all stop eating meat, not only will that go a long, long way to cutting pollution, but potentially will also solve world hunger.

Once again SM solves the world's biggest issues ;)
 

Contigo

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18,376
EV vehicles are dead in the water in terms of future. The next step forward is hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
 

conaero

Forum Owner
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34,593
EV vehicles are dead in the water in terms of future. The next step forward is hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

Wouldn't it be nice if Maserati were first to the table with this instead of last....dreaming in Chichester :atishbazi:
 

Corranga

Member
Messages
1,219
Once again SM solves the world's biggest issues ;)

To be fair... there is evidence out there to prove it would.

At this point, I'm going to say that I'm a meat eater!

In summary, for the pollution side of things:
Cows produce methane, which is bad.
Transporting feed to cows also produces pollution, which is bad.
On the hunger side of things:
Breeding cows to feed to people involves growing more than enough crops to feed every human on the planet.
You can't get more out than you put in though, so the cows get fed 9x as much food as they produce (become...) basically meaning people are starving elsewhere because there isn't enough food, because people want to eat meat.

Add to this that the population is growing, and we aren't freeing up more cow fields...

Much like the oil industry, the farming industry is worth rather a lot, and employs a massive amount of people. In the same way we won't see electric cars (or whatever the alternative ends up being) taking over overnight, something will happen eventually.
 

Nibby

Member
Messages
2,027
Being more of a motorbike fan I wasn't up on the cars but this one lad would go on about 3 cars, Lamborghini Countach, Ferrari Berlinetta Boxer and a Maserati Bora and when I was shown the Top Trump pictures of them they all looked rather exotic. Lamborghini's and Ferrari's still look exotic but Maserati's don't if I'm honest and lost a bit of kudos perhaps which works in my favour as I wouldn't have been able to afford one otherwise.
Also 15 years for a big car is when they can been seen as just an expensive money pit but in time when the herd has been thinned down which is inevitable for various reasons a non-runner will be better breaking than fixing(going by the price of grills and door rubbers) and they become a bit rarer we will see an increase in value in our cars. Fingers crossed
 

alfatwo

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5,517
But one things for sure though, every Range Rover on the road today will be in the bin in 6 or 7 years time:D

Dave
 

Andyk

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61,038
I know as petrol heads we would rather not think of a world without petrol but the future possibly was at Goodwood with the quickest two cats up the hill being electric....not sure if they were hybrids but didn't sound like it.
 

Ewan

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6,756
I was chatting about cars with the teenage children of some friends a few days ago. I questioned whether they currently see electric sports cars (e.g. BMW i8, etc) as the poster cars that they will want to buy as classics in 30 years time. No, was the answer. They, like current collectors, want Ferraris and the like, and preferably normally aspirated manuals (though they accept more likely it'll be flappy paddle 458, 488, etc).

But either way, at least it was good to hear that putting away a petrol powered super car now, with any eye to selling it to the next generation in a few decades time, isn't a mad plan.
 

Contigo

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As I said I'd not expect anything else. Everyone wants a combustion engine with at least 8 cylinders preferably Vee formation.
 

allandwf

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10,958
I know as petrol heads we would rather not think of a world without petrol but the future possibly was at Goodwood with the quickest two cats up the hill being electric....not sure if they were hybrids but didn't sound like it.
It's not always about outright speed though, is it? More about how it does it, and how it makes you feel.