F1 Pump removal and fitting instructions; With pics.

[v8chimp]

There was a post on another place indicating it's a bog standard Denso motor, and one guy had it fixed (I think it was the brushes that had actually given up) for about USD40

Of course, it's still the labour but it doesn't look *that* beyond DIY.
C

The brushes are actually only £5 on ebay, but there are reports that it isn't just the brushes that can cause problems and other things can go.

Seems the motor alone is £250 in the US, whilst we can get it over here with the pump bit at the bottom for less than £230

So assuming you pay a garage to do it, if it doesn't fix it...you could end up paying the labour charge all over again.

Might have been tempted if I had a ramp/more time on my hands!

 

[Dhanj]

Dan...how you doin'!!??

Is it complete with the little box of electronics or bare pump?


P

Hi Frank,

I am good thank you. Trust you are keeping well?

I bought just the 12V electric motor for the F1 pump. I'll have to double check the one I have but at a glance it is likely to be identical to this item here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-...3982580?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item3cc938d474

I do also have the pump head unit but that is a used item. Marry them together and you get a fully working F1 pump. Simples!

My understanding is that the evolution of the Maserati/Ferrari F1 pump part is as follows:

1. I do not have the original Maserati part number but it is equivalent to the Alfa selspeed item that I think v8chimp refers to that you can buy in this country for about 230.
2. Part number 213264-M
3. Latest part number is 247223-M I believe

In each upgrade the 12V electric motor is an improved item from the previous version but the pump head is identical. The one I have equates to item 2. They all work but the latter items should be more robust due to a better more longer lasting electric motor.

Hope that clarifies..

Cheers, Dan

 

[CatmanV2]

Good point, V8chimp

Well I have the motor details, it's actually a Magneti Marelli, apparently.203-3060

C

 

[Parisien]

Great stuff Dan......thanks...all good


P

 

[phra]

Hi all.

Been on this forum a while but mostly as a non-contributor - my apologies!
However I just wanted to thank Predator for the original post - his clear pix & instructions and the comments of all subsequent contributors certainly helped ease the pain of an urgent F1 fluid top-up.

The LEVEL light has been lighting up the Gransport dash on occasion for a while now (ever since before the last service - my thanks to the main dealer for yet another half-arsed effort!) and now the cooler weather is here it has been lighting up at each morning cold start. A few days ago there was also a reluctance to select first (or reverse) gear when starting from cold - past time for a top-up!

Bloody ****, that is a tight squeeze for my fat little fingers to get access the reservoir cap but fore-warned is fore-armed and all went like clockwork - 30mins start to finish! But what on earth were they thinking in placing the fluid reservoir in such an inaccessible position - surely a remote tank and a few centimetres of pipe would have made more sense? One of the quirkier Mazzi design decisions, it seems.

Bought a litre of Tutela CS from my pals at Cileberti Motors (local Alfa specialists) - I prefer they get the benefit of the $58 (ouch!!) rather than the ferrari/maserati dealer. A small $10 chinese oil syringe from Supercheap! and, I am ashamed to admit, 3 syringe-fulls or about 180mm of fluid to top up... the tank was nearly dry!

I topped up to 1 finger knuckle depth from the top of the filler neck (= ~20mm) - seemed about right and no leaks on subsequent test run - smooth & quiet gear changes are back - what a difference!

No idea why the fluid was so low. It must have occurred very gradually over a few years. There are no obvious fluid leaks at all and no puddles on the floor. Perhaps just a microscopic leak/misting from one of the pipe unions, I guess. I will get my (new) mech to check at the next service - he will probably be replacing the clutch at the same time, I expect. Current clutch is about 50,000km old and obviously worn - but still not slipping.

Thanks again, folks! Great resource!

cheers
phra

 

[jpmondalek]

Hey guys, long time!

My F1 pump seems to be priming more than usual. I tend to hear it while driving slowly over speed bumps. Don't recall hearing the F1 pump priming at all when driving (maybe my time away from the GS has made me paranoid?)

Changed the relay recently (usually do it every year for insurance), and it does the usual priming when I unlock and open the driver door and goes off fairly quickly.

Is this normal or could there be a leak in the system or sign the pump is weak?

Best,

JP

 

[mjheathcote]

It has to prime when driving, after changing a few gears, just that normally you can't hear it with road noise. If it runs all the time you have a problem.

 

[jpmondalek]

Thanks Mike, does priming every 20-25 seconds sound normal?

 

[CatmanV2]

That sounds like it might be a *bit* high but someone did post the official figures not so long ago.

You can also get a leak test done with the diagnostic kit

C

 

[voicey]

The best way to test the operation of the pump is to hook up the diag and monitor the system pressure whilst constantly changing gear (stationary, engine off). You will quickly see if the pump cannot hold 40bar with a demand on the system.

 

[mark casazza]

nice... your car looks so clean, you did not have the bleed the hydraulic system and recalibrate it after??

 

[Gp79]

Thanks a lot Predator and SM forum.

My morning made easy, not burnt out but poor continuity going into motor windings, could get it to run if waggled wires at motor.

 

[voicey]

I've not been through all 10 pages of this thread, but the OP doesn't make any reference to bleeding the system after the pump has been fitted. When the high pressure line from the pump is opened air gets into it and the power unit which needs to be bled out. I do this by running a clutch purge with the SD3 and a long hose from the clutch bleed screw back into the F1 tank.

Also, it is worth replacing the little low pressure hose from the tank to the pump - I've changed a few of these now as they like to split. They are quite expensive from Maserati but I'm going to try and get cheaper ones made up.

 

[Gp79]

Thanks for the pointers, I'll inspect the l.p hoses.

I was under the impression this part of the circuit was self bleeding?

Such as being a relief valve on that that part of the system, that will lift dumping fluid / any air back to the tank?

 

[Gp79]

I've not been through all 10 pages of this thread, but the OP doesn't make any reference to bleeding the system after the pump has been fitted. When the high pressure line from the pump is opened air gets into it and the power unit which needs to be bled out. I do this by running a clutch purge with the SD3 and a long hose from the clutch bleed screw back into the F1 tank.

Also, it is worth replacing the little low pressure hose from the tank to the pump - I've changed a few of these now as they like to split. They are quite expensive from Maserati but I'm going to try and get cheaper ones made up.

I see what you mean about the l.p hose, mine doesn't look brilliant, but silly money from E.S.

Please let me know if you find a suitable alternative that I could buy?

It looks like it needs the bends pre-formed as would be too tight to run just a straight oil / fuel hose.

Anyway, new pump fitted and seems to be working fine, has the same run intervals as before. I'll still get it bled properly at next service with an Indy.

Cheers Greg

 

[Mazzie]

Hay you guys, great info here and it helped me decide on buying a 2004 4200. I knew it would be a challenge but well worth the reward. I followed the instructions on how to change out the F1 pump and relay and did the job with very little headache thanks to members post but after I was done no sound from the pump? Still getting the blinking CC light and no pump sound when the door opens and when the battery is turned on. Could use some wisdom from the Maserati elders in trouble shooting? Could it be the flux capacitor or the warp drive?

 

[Gp79]

Check you have not disturbed any other connectors while under there.

Does the pump connector get power? does the relay click when battery powered up or drivers door is opened?

Check the fuse to the pump if no power, next to the relay I think.

Are you sure new relay is correct as heard there a few options on earlier cars, try replacing it with old one if in doubt.

 

[cheshiremaserati]

I thought this task requires SD3 diagnostics to change and setup correctly?
Is the OP better off booking it to a specialist to sort out if he doesn't have the diagnostics required?

 

[Gp79]

I thought this task requires SD3 diagnostics to change and setup correctly?
Is the OP better off booking it to a specialist to sort out if he doesn't have the diagnostics required?

Not really, it is only pressure switch controlled power supply through a relay.

Of course everyone has the choice to take it to any garage they choose, but the whole point of this thread is for a DIY replacement at minimal cost. Depends on how confident the owner is?

Obviously if they don't have a clue where to start i wouldn't recommend trying to attempt!

My F1 pump died and the failure was obvious therefore didn't need any outside assistance, just a new Alfa pump (£200), a few hours and it is operating perfectly.

 

[Mazzie]

Thank you for the feed back. I suspect the relay, I bought several different kinds to see witch one would work best. I have a NAPA cheap one in now and it clicks but still no power to the pump. Changed out the fuses when I trouble shot the pump, the 30 was blown. Bought the Alfa Romeo pump thanks to the info here, have to say good show on that. Funny how if it says Maserati people mark up the price by 100% percent. $1600 from Maserati, $200 from Alfa Romeo. I also purchased few other relays, the red one in the pic did not fit and the grey one did not click. I think you are right just need the old grey relay and it should click on the pump. I will have to order another one.