Engine oil use

3200GT_lover

New Member
Messages
17
Hi there,

My 3200GT uses about 1 liter of 10W60 oil per 500 KM driven. Is this what other owners of the 3200GT see as well ? Maybe it's a too high consumption of oil ?

Many thanks for your feedback,
 

allandwf

Member
Messages
10,958
They are very thirsty on Oil , 1lt/1000m seems to be the official figure , if I remember correctly. Mine was around 1lt/500 miles no leaks, and it drove very well. I just needed to remember to have some spare in the boot.
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
I don't think there that bad, mine hardly uses any, although the new pistons and liners must make a big difference

Dave
 

RSM Masser

Member
Messages
2,437
I am not saying anything
But mine doesn’t use much at all, oils changed every 6000miles and only topped up twice, a litre each time at the most.
Twin turbos shred the oil so regular changes very important
 

MRichards

Member
Messages
278
Mine has never used any significant amount of oil. Secondly,I have used several grades of oil from SAE 30 thru to SAE 60 without any adverse consequences. I'm currently using Penrite's SAE 60 because it has a high zinc content and is cheap. I can only assume Maserati specified SAE 60 to take care of the engines which may be prone to excessive oil burning and to help prevent the damage caused by owners who inconsiderately assumed the car is a sports car & thrashed it,or rather,trashed it. Those turbos are so small (and useless) they needn't be considered.
Now folks,has the oil war started on the forum ?
 

Arvid

Member
Messages
158
Modena Tridente in Germany have rebuilt numerous of these engines over the years - both QP 3.2 and 3200GT. Modena claims that the thicker oil is the reason for the oil consumption in these engines - therefore they consistently use a premium 5w40 oil on these engines. This was due to the oil rings on the pistons which they say is to weak to handle the thicker W60. According to them the engines use far less oil with the thinner viscosity.

As a sidestory I can recall when picking up my QP 3.2 Evo in Austria they had just completed an oil change - readying the car for a long trip to Norway. I didn't ask which oil they used,I just concluded that it was surely the prescribed 10w60. The car run perfect for the whole trip and did not use any oil at all. Total when parked at home was about 2000km. I used it further for a couple of weeks before again changing the oil just to do a flush out. I bought the correct 10w60 and it now started burning oil - just as I've read that these engines often do. Out of curiosity I contacted the garage in Austria to know which oil the poured in it and the answer was Mobil X1 5w40 - they just used what they had on the shelf.

I kept on using 5w40 until it started burning oil again due to a faulty diverter valve. After changing both valves the engine again settled at a very low oil consumption.

Maybe Modena Tridente is on to something ? Remember that this is the same garage that performs the Modena Power Pack conversions with 400-450++ HP. They would surely have to rely on a good oil and correct protection for the engine and if those engines can run on 5w40 so can ours ;-)

Anyhow,it's important to check the diverter valves (pop-off) if your 3.2 V8 uses excessive oil.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,547
Can't for the life of me see how using a *thinner* oil will reduce consumption, but maybe someone with more knowledge can chip in?

C
 

Arvid

Member
Messages
158
Can't for the life of me see how using a *thinner* oil will reduce consumption, but maybe someone with more knowledge can chip in?

C
My thoughts exactly at the time - but I had no reason for doubting one of Europe's most experienced on these engines. His explanation was the oil scrape rings on the pistons.
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
My thoughts exactly at the time - but I had no reason for doubting one of Europe's most experienced on these engines. His explanation was the oil scrape rings on the pistons.

There could be something in that, as its a forced induction motor

When I used to get involved tuning Lancia Intergrale engines on high boost pressures the factory competition piston rings were useless, far too much blow by

We started useing "Total Seal" ring sets from the USA that cured the problem instantly

Instead of useing a one piece oil control ring say like the 3200, the total seal arrangement uses a 3 piece, there so much more efficient

Dave
 

Zep

Moderator
Messages
9,110
Perhaps the thicker oil surface tension overcomes the outward pressure of the oil control ring which then rides over the oil, letting it pass into the combustion chamber. Or something.
 

CatmanV2

Member
Messages
48,547
Perhaps the thicker oil surface tension overcomes the outward pressure of the oil control ring which then rides over the oil, letting it pass into the combustion chamber. Or something.
Coming from anyone else I'd say that was grasping but.....

Still on for Saturday?

C
 

MRichards

Member
Messages
278
I can only vouch for my engine,but there seems to be no correlation between oil consumption & viscosity.
IMHO an upgrade to better after market oil rings would always be a good idea if you are rebuilding an engine. Also,if you see a very viscous oil in use,there is a problem,because the basic idea is rapid flushing of the bearings with as low a viscosity oil as possible which will still maintain a boundary layer of oil film under maximum load. SAE 60 is currently a bit of a fad with the boy racers,the motor factors seem to stock heaps of it & also such ridiculous stuff as SAE 75,they tell me it sells well. I suppose it helps keep clapped out engines a bit quieter ?
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
Everything's fine until the cylinder bores go oval with wear, with forced induction motors especially, the oil consumption will only get worse

Dave
 

Duncanofengland

Junior Member
Messages
86
Multigrade mineral oil, say 10w60, behaves like a 10 grade oil at low temperatures (around -30c) and a 60 grade oil at high temperatures (around 140c). Temperatures in turbochargers are far higher than 140c, so the viscosity of oil is a bit irrelevant under those conditions. This is where synthetic oils come into their own, they hold their viscosity at much higher temperatures. So you are far better to use a fully synthetic oil, than a part synthetic oil in a turbocharged car.

Higher viscosity oil is more sticky and hence more difficult for the piston oil control rings to scrape it to where it should be - hence oil burn.

If you are going to rag your car to its limits, use 10/60 fully synthetic, but you will have to suffer the oil consumption. Take it a little easier and a 10/40 or 5/40 fully synthetic will give good protection and low oil consumption.

The engine oil is almost the cheapest part of the car to replace - so do it regularly and it will pay dividends.

As an aside. Many years ago I bought a cheap high mileage Vauxhall Carlton 4 cylinder 1800cc car. I drove it 1000 miles a week. I changed the oil and filter every 5000 miles, the oil, filter and spark plugs every 10000 miles and additionally, the air filter every 20000 miles. Within a year, the fuel consumption had increased by 10% and oil consumption decreased by 10%. A year after I bought it, with 45000 extra miles on the clock, I sold the car for more than I paid for it because the engine was so sweet.

Duncan
 

Arvid

Member
Messages
158
I fully agree with Duncan. A 10w60 was the ultimate oil when Maserati constructed these engines over 25 years ago. I think they mostly recommended this viscosity to keep it safe and to cope with the high temperatures created at full blast. A strong oil film is what's needed to keep an engine safe from wear so if the engine is sound a modern fully synthetic 5w40 or 5w50 has all the properties needed for normal and regular use. Probably quite a few of them has far better HTHS and TBN properties than the old Selenia Reacing which is not a fully synth oil but a synth blend. If the car is raced then stick to the w60 for piece of mind.

But again - Modena Tridente rebuild and modifies these engines for customers. His first choice based on experience is a low SAPS (ash) 5w40. The low ash assures less soot for less trouble with valve seats and there are no low ash 10w60 oils available. The thicker the viscosity - the more oil burnt = carbon build up on valves. These engines are prone to valve seat damage due to carbon build up from oil burning and combined with poorly maintained valve clearance will sooner or later create problems.

I'm not an engine expert - far from it. These are all words from the engine expert in Germany.
 
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MRichards

Member
Messages
278
"This is where synthetic oils come into their own, they hold their viscosity at much higher temperatures. " This statement is incorrect.
The stability of the viscosity value at high temperatures is a function of the oil additives,especially for multigrade oils. In fact,the multigrade function is totally dependant on the additive package.
Synthetic oils are based on oils other than mineral oils derived from crude oil. The advantage of the man made synthetics is that their are much more chemically stable at high temperatures than mineral oils which are prone to oxidation.
Their is no other advantage in using synthetics. The big disadvantage is higher cost than mineral oils,so,unless you absolutely can't survive without synthetic oil you are wasting your money. Personally I use mineral oil based lubricants which are more than adequate in performance for all but the most extreme conditions. I don't even use synthetics in my Formula Ford race car and the engine lasts a long time.
As a point of interest the synthetics were first used for aviation where extreme engine temperatures apply. The original synthetics were the same chemicals used in plastics formulations to maintain their flexibility,that is,internal lubricants known as phthalate esters. The only reason they were not used 50 years ago was cost and the fact that old engines would not have benefited.