Ban the car!!

TridentTested

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1,819
Eloquently put. 7 miles to the nearest major settlement (Stow on the Wold/Broadway), neither served by public transport.

My choice though

That's the crux. It was your choice. Centuries ago we lived on the land because we worked on the land, there was no choice. With industrialisation we moved to towns. With the mechanisation of farming this migration increased.

Most people who now live seven miles from the nearest settlement - I say most, not all - have chosen to live there because they want to be seven miles from the nearest settlement. Car ownership has facilitated that choice because you know you can drive to buy a pint of milk.

Unfortunately this is not sustainable and it will change.
 

montravia

Member
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1,617
Exact
That's the crux. It was your choice. Centuries ago we lived on the land because we worked on the land, there was no choice. With industrialisation we moved to towns. With the mechanisation of farming this migration increased.

Most people who now live seven miles from the nearest settlement - I say most, not all - have chosen to live there because they want to be seven miles from the nearest settlement. Car ownership has facilitated that choice because you know you can drive to buy a pint of milk.

Unfortunately this is not sustainable and it will change.
Exactly so.
 

keith

Member
Messages
624
I was out for drinks with the lads last night and we got onto this topic, it turned out I was the only one in our half dozen group who owns a car. The others, all forty-something professionals with families, use car clubs, rental cars, and Uber. They've done their sums and find it cheaper and more convenient.

This is becoming increasingly common. My or should I say for most on here our generation (I'm 53), when turned 17, would immediately learn to drive, and aspire to own our first car, with all the freedom and mobility that provided. Whilst certainly applicable more to those living near city's, young people today have different priorities.
And as you pointed out, even older people are choosing alternatives to car ownership. As with my friend who I mentioned in my previous comment, she says car ownership and driving is just aggravation. As she explained, I bought a car for the same reason she buys clothes and shoes. Desirability not necessity.
I think Manufacturers will increasingly offer car rental schemes as an alternative to ownership.
Eventually people will pick up a 'Pod' on wheels which will autonomously take them to a destination, whilst car owners will be either the very rich in luxury or super cars, or an enthusiast akin to a classic/vintage car owner of today.
 

MrMickS

Member
Messages
3,951
That's the crux. It was your choice. Centuries ago we lived on the land because we worked on the land, there was no choice. With industrialisation we moved to towns. With the mechanisation of farming this migration increased.

Most people who now live seven miles from the nearest settlement - I say most, not all - have chosen to live there because they want to be seven miles from the nearest settlement. Car ownership has facilitated that choice because you know you can drive to buy a pint of milk.

Unfortunately this is not sustainable and it will change.

I live in a village that has been around since Norman times at least, we have the castle ruins to bear witness to that. Its not a new thing. It has transcended subsistence farming, industrialisation and the move to urban centres, and will survive as we move further into a post-industrial age.

Things will change, no doubt, goods will be delivered rather than us travelling to get them. We already see this with the Asda/Sainsbury's/Ocado vans that appear from time to time. Eventually we won't own, or drive, personal vehicles because there will be a more convenient alternative. Its not going to happen overnight though and its unlikely to happen in my lifetime.

Car ownership will decline, especially amongst city dwellers, but its not going away completely.

Incidentally this is the thinking behind Marchionne's plans for FCA. He doesn't see mass produced, low end, cars as profitable. This is why all of the effort has been put in place to revitalise Alfa Romeo as a more premium brand. Car ownership will be a choice, and possibly a status symbol, going back to pre-WWII days perhaps, by those that can afford it. FCA is being positioned to be able to take advantage of this going forward.
 

montravia

Member
Messages
1,617
Time moves inexorably forward.
I have difficulty sourcing Welsh Dried Steam coal for my traction engine. That's understandable.
In about 15 years I'll be in the same situation finding suitable grade fuel for the Maserati which will be as much a spectacle as the traction engine.

I also appreciate the bad science talked up by environmentalists and politicians who ignore the basic physics of power loss in each link in the power generation chain and just shifting the power release from ICE to somewhere else.

I'll be still driving, but what? and purely for utility than pleasure.

Spent the day yesterday contributing to local polution. Testing out the newly completed garden railway.

Spank the Maser today.

Irresponsible ? Me?
 

MrMickS

Member
Messages
3,951
Time moves inexorably forward.
I have difficulty sourcing Welsh Dried Steam coal for my traction engine. That's understandable.
In about 15 years I'll be in the same situation finding suitable grade fuel for the Maserati which will be as much a spectacle as the traction engine.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't see the world becoming purely electric powered in the next 15 years. Not unless there are major advances in power generation, storage, and transmission. I would expect petrol prices to go up here purely because fewer people are buying it, economies of scale and all that. I still think it'll be available till the middle of the century though.

I'm looking forward to my new Maserati milk float ;)
 

alfatwo

Member
Messages
5,517
I was out for drinks with the lads last night and we got onto this topic, it turned out I was the only one in our half dozen group who owns a car. The others, all forty-something professionals with families, use car clubs, rental cars, and Uber. They've done their sums and find it cheaper and more convenient.

I bet they don't live out in the sticks!

Dave
 

TridentTested

Member
Messages
1,819
I don't question another man's virtue. I guess it's a lifestyle choice which works for them. They are all intelligent chaps, successful in their respective careers, and made this choice for their circumstances.
 

keith

Member
Messages
624
To me the key difference today compared to years ago. Cars are becoming to many, such as your friends something akin to an appliance. It is something you buy because you need it, not because you want it as a source of enjoyment.
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,764
Could change to trikes , just got this email from Harley Davidson For a trike, a triglide ultra so clicked it

AFFORDABLE FINANCE

Representative Example

Cash Price:

£30,545.00

47 Monthly Payments:

£367.64

Your Deposit:

£6,045.00

MSHD Deposit Contribtion

£500

Agreement Duration:

49 Months

Amount Of Credit:

£24,000.00

Final Payment:

£14,390.00

Acceptance Fee:

£10.00

Total Payable:

£38,581.72

Interest Rate (Fixed):

10.11% APR

Representative APR:

10.6%
 

Wack61

Member
Messages
8,764
At 38k by the time you wn I doubt a 25% increase will make much difference to annual sales inquiries of 2
 

MrMickS

Member
Messages
3,951
There have always been at least two kinds of drivers. Those that driver because they have to and those because they enjoy it. The more the former find reasons not to drive the better for those of us that enjoy it.

My fear is that those who don’t will construe reasons why none of us should. This inevitably creates conflict between the needs of those who live in cities and those that live rurally. I’ve no problem with those that are able to moving near their jobs etc just don’t presume that it is an affordable choice for everyone.