Meanwhile. On the Ukrainian border.

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Scaf

Scaf

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Whatever the outcome, Putin has changed the world in some respects.
Germany to reinvest in is army (he didn’t want that) NATO will further secure EU boarders (that’s what stated this in the first place)
Even the Swiss have “sort of” taken sides.
It’s a complete mess and a terrible tragedy - no winners, only losers.
 
GeoffCapes

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Scaf said:
Whatever the outcome, Putin has changed the world in some respects.
Germany to reinvest in is army (he didn’t want that) NATO will further secure EU boarders (that’s what stated this in the first place)
Even the Swiss have “sort of” taken sides.
It’s a complete mess and a terrible tragedy - no winners, only losers.
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The only way this ends peacefully is if someone in Russia puts a bullet in Putins head.

I think we are as close to WW3 as we have ever been.
 
FIFTY

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Scaf said:
Whatever the outcome, Putin has changed the world in some respects.
Germany to reinvest in is army (he didn’t want that) NATO will further secure EU boarders (that’s what stated this in the first place)
Even the Swiss have “sort of” taken sides.
It’s a complete mess and a terrible tragedy - no winners, only losers.
Click to expand...

Germany were allowed to start building up their military again a few years ago after a prolonged ban since WWII.
GeoffCapes said:
I think we are as close to WW3 as we have ever been.
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Is a "world" war possible without the presence of Empire? I mean the rest of the world will watch Europe burn because they are not enslaved by their Royal families as they were in the early 20th Century.

We have moved into a multi-lateral world order with the USA no longer the hegemon... This has been in the making since thr late 2000's. NATO is the only show of force left for the Western Hemisphere and thankfully it seems to be top dog for now which is odd for a non-state actor as most of them have fallen from relevance (thinking UN and EU here).
 
GeoffCapes

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FIFTY said:
Is a "world" war possible without the presence of Empire? I mean the rest of the world will watch Europe burn because they are not enslaved by their Royal families as they were in the early 20th Century.

We have moved into a multi-lateral world order with the USA no longer the hegemon... This has been in the making since thr late 2000's. NATO is the only show of force left for the Western Hemisphere and thankfully it seems to be top dog for now which is odd for a non-state actor as most of them have fallen from relevance (thinking UN and EU here).
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I guess it depends what your definition of 'World War' is.

It used to be war involving countries from every continent (I seem to recall that was the definition when watching something on the Discovery Channel).
 
FIFTY

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GeoffCapes said:
I guess it depends what your definition of 'World War' is.

It used to be war involving countries from every continent (I seem to recall that was the definition when watching something on the Discovery Channel).
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I would say discovery channel is proving a lay explanation that is accessible to all people of various ages... They are not a scholarly source

If there was no Empire WW1&2 would have been the Europeans fighting amongst themselves (again). The Empires mobilised millions of people from their colonies and as a result polarised regions into fighting each other that are not in Europe but colonised, allied to or under the coersion of different European powers. You could argue that the very cause of these wars was merely the existance of these vast Empires competing for resources to serve only themselves, with that considered then war is inevitable.
 
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GeoffCapes

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FIFTY said:
I would say discovery channel is proving a lay explanation that is accessible to all people of various ages... They are not a scholarly source

If there was no Empire WW1&2 would have been the Europeans fighting amongst themselves (again). The Empires mobilised millions of people from their colonies and as a result polarised regions into fighting each other that are not in Europe but colonised by different European powers. You could argue that the very cause of these wars was merely the existance of these vast Empires competing for resources to serve only themselves then war is inevitable.
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In WW2 Japan wanted to create an Empire for themselves...... They started by invading China in the 1930's.

Saying both world wars were down to the existence of Empires is a very simplistic view on things. There were many other factors for the start of both wars.
 
FIFTY

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Contradiction alert

Japan and Germany started wars because they wanted an empire just like the ones that existed at the time
 
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FIFTY

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It is ok Mark you dont need to agree with a "Snowflake"

I'm just spouting what I remember from my studies at uni... The simplistic view is saying things like WW3 is around the corner or "we are all about to get nuked"... That said the best thing I have heard all week is that the Russians are going to bomb the channel tunnel before they invade the UK.
 
Felonious Crud

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FIFTY said:
... That said the best thing I have heard all week is that the Russians are going to bomb the channel tunnel before they invade the UK.
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That would be a mistake. The tunnel is not only cost effective, but also fast. I would advise against them taking the slow crossing to Portsmouth or Poole, although the restaurant on that Brittany Ferries crossing is good.
 
Wack61

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I've never felt like this over any other conflict, depressed and so ******* angry, maybe because it's Europe, maybe because of the suffering there was in WW2 and nothing has been learned ,I feel like filling my van up with food and setting off for the Polish border, I know that's a ridiculous thing to do so I've sent the red cross money , I just hope it buys someone some comfort.

Politicians start wars and the man/woman in the street pays the price.
 
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dem maser

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Wack61 said:
I've never felt like this over any other conflict, depressed and so *** angry, maybe because it's Europe, maybe because of the suffering there was in WW2 and nothing has been learned ,I feel like filling my van up with food and setting off for the Polish border, I know that's a ridiculous thing to do so I've sent the red cross money , I just hope it buys someone some comfort.

Politicians start wars and the man/woman in the street pays the price.
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well done to you
 
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dem maser

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i just wish Cyprus had the level of support back then, Turks did what Russia did and till now they are still there.....many left and settled elsewhere leaving properties behind and all just memories now
 
Scaf

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Wack61 said:
,I feel like filling my van up with food and setting off for the Polish border, I know that's a ridiculous thing to do so I've sent the red cross money , I just hope it buys someone some comfort.
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We had a big sort out of warm clothing last night to contribute to lorry loads leaving for the Polish / Ukrainian boarder on Friday.
 
Nibby

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Since I was 17 in 1980 we’ve had the Russians going into Afghanistan, Alexander Haig US Secretary of State trying to broker peace between us and the fascist junta in Argentina over the Falklands, the Americans were worried if the Argentinian regime were seen to fail it would fall to a communist regime, the Americans training El Salvador’s far-right Atlacatl Battalion responsible for mass murder, Gulf War x2 with Saddam Hussein backed by the Soviet Union and Germany beforehand.
Some of these regimes Russia and America have supported is frightening.
 
Nibby

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Wack61 said:
maybe because of the suffering there was in WW2 and nothing has been learned ,
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There’s a element in Eastern Europe who have to be either neo-nazis or communists I’m afraid. It was the same in the Second World war. It comes apparent whenever we play football against them and our black players get booed. Decent people in Eastern Europe are let down by these backward neanderthals.
 
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